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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
The thing is, if you know many Ukrainians as I do, you would know that Putin has absolutely no valid point if he talks about a strong fascist influence on Ukrainians. They simply are not nazis.
If you look into what he actually means by fascism / nazism, you can clearly see that what he means by it is not the same as what the generally accepted definition is elsewhere.
And I didn't do that
I used to think “**** them all” but I had a change of heart. **** the rapists and soldiers doing that shit but normal citizens and soldiers? I have some sympathy for.
You seem to be going on the theory that there is finite sympathy a person can have. I can feel different levels of sympathy and empathy for all sorts of different groups of people.
I don’t have as much understanding for a Russian soldier as I would for a child with cancer but I try to understand or sympathise with people who are clearly having issues in their life.
Yep, you've done an about turn. I never thought '**** them all, I'm just more on the side of the suffering Ukrainians. I also know of Russians here who are blaming everyone but Russia for this war. I am not sympathetic towards them.
Yes I am. If someone on this forum dies (even if I don't particularly remember them) it feels close to home and I feel a level of sympathy. If a fan of another club on another forum dies, I don't feel that same level of sympathy. The truth is that there is a huge amount of suffering in the world - enough that if I really tried to think about it all, I would be totally depressed and wouldn't be able to function. I don't think humans can deal with feeling as much sympathy as would be warranted if we really thought about it. A lot of people in Ukraine have really suffered (I don't need to go into detail there). You have the suffering of people preparing Qatar's world cup, the suffering on the oppressed Uyghurs in China etc etc. I feel sympathy for all those people. By comparison, I can't see what suffering the people of Russia face?
I accept that that is not how you feel - to each their own.
Dr Bandler
Well-known member
And I didn't do that
To be fair you didn't make that exact correlation, another user did, so I apologise. I just think that The Clamp is correct - we need to start with our own hearts and minds, which are not always pure.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
“They” being every German?
Pleased to hear that you are suggesting that would have stood up to them and risked your family ending up in a concentration camp or being shot? Brave or foolhardy?
That is what you are suggesting?
More putting words in my mouth. People did turn against Jews. No, I would not do that. I would not have persecuted them and I would have made sure my children knew it was wrong to do so. Many German citizens did this.
Germany are now attempting to celebrate the defeat of the Nazis as if it was never anything to do with German people. I don't accept that revision of history.
Obviously not, that's a ridiculous assumption. But it wasn't just a few people who persecuted the Jews, it was a large percentage.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
The fact that you have never lived under a dictatorship is probably making you far less sympathetic than you should be towards your average citizen who has/does imo, we aren’t all heroes
Anyway I’ll leave it there, I am derailing this thread.
driddles
Well-known member
Enjoyed reading the above but don't understand who this (18/18) is pointed at?
"It will be interesting to watch the pretenders in Western Intelligence suffer total amnesia in a week's time as they and the rest of the "Sanhedrin of the Pinky Sworn Truth" reposition themselves to Russia's collapse."
"It will be interesting to watch the pretenders in Western Intelligence suffer total amnesia in a week's time as they and the rest of the "Sanhedrin of the Pinky Sworn Truth" reposition themselves to Russia's collapse."
I think he's saying that Western Intelligence will say "We expected this collapse all along," instead of saying, "This war could go on for years."
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,156
I think he's saying that Western Intelligence will say "We expected this collapse all along," instead of saying, "This war could go on for years."
Ah - that makes sense to this layman.
Isn't it amazing what a difference a few spare HIMARS the Americans found down behind the sofa, can do?
Did someone in the Pentagon say 'we can't let this go on for years'?
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,632
It's great reading this stuff. But again I think he's saying what his audience want to hear. It would be great if there was a Afghanistan Army type collapse here, but the Russian army and Afghan are different. Total capitulation in the space of days here is almost unimaginable.
It would be wonderful if Ukraine can continue to take advantage of this Russian confusion and press home their advantage in the coming days, but I have no doubt we're still in for a long slog and the Ukranian people, surely the most impressive population set in the world, are in for an unbearable winter.
Of course. But you really don't see what suffering the people of Russia face? I'm not sure you mean that. People are disappearing into the Siberian tundra for speaking out against Putin's war. Groups like Pussy Riot have spent time in jail for daring to be subversive. You don't have sympathy for some of these people?
We don't want to be so binary, surely? No Russian people deserve our thoughts of sympathy because they have Putin as a leader? Were all Brits murdering scumbags because Blair took us into an unjust war?
Always worth taking these things with a pinch of salt. The Lanchester stuff is compelling though, plus the point about Russian military command not in control of the information.
Albion in the north
Well-known member
So where did you "learn" these things? Read them on the internet? Watched a few videos on youtube or twitter? Maybe even read a few books on the subject?
Ive been married to a Ukrainian for 20 years. Been there many times.
My wifes Uncle was a member of the government of Transnistria. That country that I doubt youd even heard of 7 months ago. HIs family are/were Russian sympathisers because theyd had a good life funded by them.
Her Grandfather was taken by Stalin. But thats a long story about what happened to him. My mother in law was a very proud Ukrainian.
There is so much I could tell you, good and bad about the country that I have seen with my own eyes.
I think you are probably just as much a victim of the propoganda as a lot of Russians (and Ukrainians) are.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,953
Sadly many folk don't want to hear the truth. We all know the invasion was wrong, but the heroes and villains narrative is a lot greyer than made out.