[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eeyore]

Yep, I'll drink to that!

Have to have a beer at the cricket one day.

I know the 'curry night' concept is laughed at, but there should be an NSC cricket outing one day. Doubtless many stories to share.

 

[peterward]

I do not believe the government of Ukraine can pay 5M rubles or anything else to each of 200,000 Russian soldiers, no.

They wouldnt, but a pro ukrainian oligarch could underwrite that to do their bit

 

[peterward]

I was in Bucharest last week. The hotel TV's English language channels were Al Jazeera, CNN and BBC World. I also watched some Romanian reports in our office with my colleagues, who translated bits and pieces. None of them were faking the air raid sirens or body armour. The Romanian news, understandably, also focussed on refugees arriving there, dangers to their borders and the probability of Moldova being next.

Across those channels the presenters were of many different nationalities with many different backers. Each had their own approach. And not one of them came anywhere near the absolute bollocks spouted by Russia Today.

You'll upset Swansman!

 

[GT49er]

Where did you get 200,000 from? You think it's intended to make every Ruskie give in?

I believe 200,000 is the number of troops reportedly massing on the borders of Ukraine - and now sadly many of them inside it. You think they'll just pay, say, 1 in 10, and ask them to share it around their mates? Or have you a better idea of how they'll select the lucky ones?

... and 'Ruskies' ..... as a mod you should give your head a wobble (and probably give yourself a short ban). You should well know that the only derogatory and discriminatory stereotyping words allowed on NSC are 'pikeys' and 'bin-dippers'. 'Sakes!

 

[The Clamp]

This whole situation has really got to me today. Genuinely made me long for the safety of the first lockdown and a few lies from Boris Johnson. Seem like the “good old days now”.

If that’s not too insensitive a notion?

 

[Guinness Boy]

You'll upset Swansman!

It wouldn't be the first time.......

 

[lawros left foot]

As far as I rmember, no - the Falklands is (I think) a British protectorate, so wouldn't be covered by the 'attack one you attack all' agreement. I'm pretty sure we asked the USA for support, but they remained neutral.

USA tried to stay neutral until Thatcher got in Reagan’s ear. They sold us weapons and offered to loan ships for non-combative roles i.e.Hong Kong guard ship,West Indies guard ship, and satellite intelligence.

France is a strange one, not exactly in, and not exactly out. They don’t allow non French officers to command French troops, but, do commit to NATO.duties, in the event of war. They did sell Argentina Exocet missiles before the war, although whether they helped maintain during the war is a disputed claim. We had sold Argentina 2 type 42 destroyers a couple of years before the war, so we can’t really complain.

The Spanish speaking members of NATO, were pretty belligerent, but that was as far as it went.
New Zealand lent us 2 ships that, I believe, stayed in the Far East.

 

[Baldseagull]

I do not believe the government of Ukraine can pay 5M rubles or anything else to each of 200,000 Russian soldiers, no.

Right now £34k will bag you 5M Rubles, to buy 200,000 soldiers off would cost £6.8Bn I suspect the cost of fighting 200,000 Russians would be considerably higher, plus loss of life and destruction of infrastructure.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I believe 200,000 is the number of troops reportedly massing on the borders of Ukraine - and now sadly many of them inside it. You think they'll just pay, say, 1 in 10, and ask them to share it around their mates? Or have you a better idea of how they'll select the lucky ones?

... and 'Ruskies' ..... as a mod you should give your head a wobble (and probably give yourself a short ban). You should well know that the only derogatory and discriminatory stereotyping words allowed on NSC are 'pikeys' and 'bin-dippers'. 'Sakes!

So, in summary, and without the deflections, you believe that offer was budgeted on being successful on every single invading soldier.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It appears you have a unhealthy dislike for anything the British Government does with regards the current crisis in Ukraine, I would imagine most Ukrainians that are fleeing would prefer to stay as close to home as possible, they are not your average economic migrant, they want to to return to their homeland as soon as practical to do so. It is my opinion we are doing enough at the moment, this may change.

Immigration is an extremely sensitive subject for this Government and that’s understandable seeing the way they got elected.

Whilst I applaud what they have currently done, I believe that they should go so much further.

I think that they are misjudging the room, worried that they’ll upset the hard anti-immigration right if they start letting in refugees unconditionally.

The thing is, most refugees are mothers and their children. You’d be hard pressed to find an NSCer who wouldn’t give them a spare room (if they had one) for a few weeks or months. I don’t think the Government is on the right page. Still too many caveats. Perhaps when most have re-settled in the EU, our position will change?

 

[Poojah]

This whole situation has really got to me today. Genuinely made me long for the safety of the first lockdown and a few lies from Boris Johnson. Seem like the “good old days now”.

If that’s not too insensitive a notion?

First it was Brexit. Then it was Coronavirus. Now it’s the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and whatever that may spiral into. Each episode more depressing than the last, and each one having you pining for the simpler times that went before.

If we do manage to avert WW3, anyone got any money on an alien invasion being up next?

 

[nicko31]

First it was Brexit. Then it was Coronavirus. Now it’s the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and whatever that may spiral into. Each episode more depressing than the last, and each one having you pining for the simpler times that went before.

If we do manage to avert WW3, anyone got any money on an alien invasion being up next?

At least through the whole shitshow we're been in the Premier League.....

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

do we know how moldova has aligned itself, if anything?

Same situation as Ukraine. Putin has his troops stationed in a part of it to "protect" the Russian speakers.

 

[Baldseagull]

USA tried to stay neutral until Thatcher got in Reagan’s ear. They sold us weapons and offered to loan ships for non-combative roles i.e.Hong Kong guard ship,West Indies guard ship, and satellite intelligence.

France is a strange one, not exactly in, and not exactly out. They don’t allow non French officers to command French troops, but, do commit to NATO.duties, in the event of war. They did sell Argentina Exocet missiles before the war, although whether they helped maintain during the war is a disputed claim. We had sold Argentina 2 type 42 destroyers a couple of years before the war, so we can’t really complain.

The Spanish speaking members of NATO, were pretty belligerent, but that was as far as it went.
New Zealand lent us 2 ships that, I believe, stayed in the Far East.

There were French Technicians in Argentina, officially they were told to cease what they were doing, unofficially they fixed issues with the missile launchers, enabling the exocets to be used. France under Mitterands Presidency were more helpful to us during the conflict though and helped prevent Argentina getting hold of any more than the 5 they had sold them before the conflict, others in French Government felt they were being too helpful to us.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Mariupol is most definitely not conquered yet mate. Berdyansk another port down the coast a bit is, but its small. Mariupol is surrounded, being shelled but still as far as my mrs is concerend in Ukrainian hands.

Where did you get that from?

No I didn't mean it had been conquered, more that I meant that the land strip to Crimea is surely a primary Putin target.

 

[GT49er]

So, in summary, and without the deflections, you believe that offer was budgeted on being successful on every single invading soldier.

Splendid mocking Sunshine - but you haven't come up with even an attempt at estimating exactly what and to to whom they were offering 5M rubles.

OK, say five thousand take up the offer and bugger off home (and will probably be shot). That just leaves 195 thousand (reportedly) left on active service in Ukraine. Problem solved, eh?
Care to offer some smarter conjectural numbers? (you presumably do accept that offering Russian soldiers money to go away isn't much use unless they all - or nearly all - go home?)

 

[Poojah]

At least through the whole shitshow we're been in the Premier League.....

That did make me laugh, I have to say, and it’s not been a day for chuckles. I was going to retort with a jokey comment about Ian Holloway, but quickly realised it was way to trivial for this thread so I’ll leave it there instead.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Immigration is an extremely sensitive subject for this Government and that’s understandable seeing the way they got elected.

Whilst I applaud what they have currently done, I believe that they should go so much further.

I think that they are misjudging the room, worried that they’ll upset the hard anti-immigration right if they start letting in refugees unconditionally.

The thing is, most refugees are mothers and their children. You’d be hard pressed to find an NSCer who wouldn’t give them a spare room (if they had one) for a few weeks or months. I don’t think the Government is on the right page. Still too many caveats. Perhaps when most have re-settled in the EU, our position will change?

I think the key here is that the UK government should do what the Ukrainians want us to do. Certainly we should be making it much easier for Ukrainians with family already here to come here. The Ukrainian ambassador to the UK was on Sunday Morning and when Sophie Raworth asked him if the UK government should be doing more to allow Ukrainians to come here, he gave the impression that this was not his immediate concern and that help was more needed for the refugees crossing into their neighbouring countries and he was happy with the response to that situation so far from the UK.

 

[The Clamp]

First it was Brexit. Then it was Coronavirus. Now it’s the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and whatever that may spiral into. Each episode more depressing than the last, and each one having you pining for the simpler times that went before.

If we do manage to avert WW3, anyone got any money on an alien invasion being up next?

Thanks, first chuckle today

 

[The Clamp]

At least through the whole shitshow we're been in the Premier League.....

And the 2nd