[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Bry Nylon]

Forget all this geo-political analysis and trying to second guess Putin’s next move as Russia put their nuclear weapons at a heightened state of readiness. BBC Breakfast has found out that President Zelensky won Strictly Come Dancing Ukraine and voiced the Ukrainian version of Paddington.

…And now Carol with the weather…

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Forget all this geo-political analysis and trying to second guess Putin’s next move as Russia put their nuclear weapons at a heightened state of readiness. BBC Breakfast has found out that President Zelensky won Strictly Come Dancing Ukraine and voiced the Ukrainian version of Paddington.

…And now Carol with the weather…

Those two presenters do come across as a bit light weight. I’m finding the Sky News coverage more interesting.

 

[schmunk]

I guess if we are going to cross reference events today with WW2 here is a unelected German leader speaking for a German dominated continent bloc laying claim to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-eu-commission-chief-von-der-leyen-invite/

In what way is she 'unelected'?

In what way is the EU 'German dominated'?

In what way is the EU, which Ukraine has begged for help, 'laying claim to Ukraine'?

 

[vegster]

very interesting thread on history and strategy. points to why Russia just isnt getting as far as expected.

also, seen alternative reports the long column is to the NE of Kyiv not the south. either way, now broadcast across the world a couple of ambushes or drone strikes stop that still. Russia seem to have no convoy protection, just driving down the main roads expecting no resistance.

I think the Ukrainians have been clever with their tactics and their use of anti tank and anti aircraft missiles.. It seems the Russians do not have air superiority and so they can be easy meat when they just drive in in convoy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sky reporting that Russian interest rates have been raised from 9.5 to 20% and Russians being encouraged to sell foreign assets. This has stalled the rouble sell off for now.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Those two presenters do come across as a bit light weight. I’m finding the Sky News coverage more interesting.

Dan Walker concluded a suitably sombre interview with BBC Security Correspondent, Frank Gardner about Putin’s nuclear capability then gurned into camera 1 as he couldn’t wait to tell us, “…but hey - never mind all that depressing world destruction stuff! President Zelensky won Strictly!”

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In what way is she 'unelected'?

In what way is the EU 'German dominated'?

In what way is the EU, which Ukraine has begged for help, 'laying claim to Ukraine'?

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Johnson has now decided Ukrainians with family here can come without visas. Others will have to take their chances elsewhere.

Family doesn't include parents of adults nor brothers & sisters, it seems.

Waive visas, not flags.

 

[Bold Seagull]

In what way is she 'unelected'?

As per [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] I wouldn't bother. Stick him on ignore.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Family doesn't include parents of adults nor brothers & sisters, it seems.

Waive visas, not flags.

We are trying to get my in-laws here at the moment but nobody seems to know if it's feasible or not- sounds like it's not as thing stand for these reasons. They're going to Ireland if we can't get some kind of definitive guidance in the coming days.

Seems like Gov are doing as little as they can, seeing how bad the public outcry is then re-evaluating. The 'invitation' for Ukrainians to come as seasonal fruit pickers was beyond insulting.

 

[Poojah]

An article from the BBC this morning examining the most important will he / won’t he question in the world right now. It’s not exactly a reassuring read.

Will Putin push the nuclear button?

Let me begin with an admission. So many times, I've thought: "Putin would never do this." Then he goes and does it.

"He'd never annex Crimea, surely?" He did.

"He'd never start a war in the Donbas." He did.

"He'd never launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine." He has.

I've concluded that the phrase "would never do" doesn't apply to Vladimir Putin.

And that raises an uncomfortable question:

"He'd never press the nuclear button first. Would he?"

It's not a theoretical question. Russia's leader has just put his country's nuclear forces on "special" alert, complaining of "aggressive statements" over Ukraine by Nato leaders.

Listen closely to what President Putin has been saying. Last Thursday when he announced on TV his "special military operation" (in reality, a full-scale invasion of Ukraine), he delivered a chilling warning:

"To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history."

"Putin's words sound like a direct threat of nuclear war," believes Nobel Peace Prize laureate Dmitry Muratov, chief editor of the Novaya Gazeta newspaper.

"In that TV address, Putin wasn't acting like the master of the Kremlin, but the master of the planet; in the same way the owner of a flash car shows off by twirling his keyring round his finger, Putin was twirling the nuclear button. He's said many times: if there is no Russia, why do we need the planet? No one paid any attention. But this is a threat that if Russia isn't treated as he wants, then everything will be destroyed."

In a 2018 documentary, President Putin commented that "…if someone decides to annihilate Russia, we have the legal right to respond. Yes, it will be a catastrophe for humanity and for the world. But I'm a citizen of Russia and its head of state. Why do we need a world without Russia in it?"

Fast forward to 2022. Putin has launched a full-scale war against Ukraine, but the Ukrainian armed forces are putting up stiff resistance; Western nations have - to the Kremlin's surprise - united to impose potentially crippling economic and financial sanctions against Moscow. The very existence of the Putin system may have been put in doubt.

"Putin's in a tight spot," believes Moscow-based defence analyst Pavel Felgenhauer. "He doesn't have many options left, once the West freezes the assets of the Russian Central bank and Russia's financial system actually implodes. That will make the system unworkable.

"One option for him is to cut gas supplies to Europe, hoping that will make the Europeans climb down. Another option is to explode a nuclear weapon somewhere over the North Sea between Britain and Denmark and see what happens."

If Vladimir Putin did choose a nuclear option, would anyone in his close circle try to dissuade him? Or stop him?

"Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."

And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.

"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."

The war in Ukraine is Vladimir Putin's war. If the Kremlin leader achieves his military aims, Ukraine's future as a sovereign nation will be in doubt. If he is perceived to be failing and suffers heavy casualties, the fear is that could prompt the Kremlin to adopt more desperate measures.

Especially if "would never do" no longer applies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

 

[Half Time Pies]

I guess if we are going to cross reference events today with WW2 here is a unelected German leader speaking for a German dominated continent bloc laying claim to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-eu-commission-chief-von-der-leyen-invite/

A European empire that used to stretch from Lisbon to Poland now wants more living room?

At least we will now get an opportunity to see how many Europeans want to fight for this new Europe……..maybe they can push a bit further and hold on to Stalingrad this time?

Watch out..thread about to be derailed by Brexiteers!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Watch out..thread about to be derailed by Brexiteers!

Nope, thread about to be derailed by one Brexiteer. There have been similar attempts by the other side. Might need some strong VAR interventions here….

 

[peterward]

This is right. You send guns and bombs to Ukraine with the knowledge and the intention that they will be used to kill Russian soldiers, and you've joined the war. I don't think this is a good thing personally, and I don't hear much language, from what are supposed to be non-parties, encouraging peace.

I do think Putin could be surprised by the reaction from the West, but I actually think that is because he thought the West would have more sense. Maybe the short term result will be to deter Putin from continuing with this war, but I doubt it. What I don't doubt is that Putin will probably now feel that war between Russia and NATO is inevitable at some point in the future, the old rules and the old equilibrium might be out of the window, and I'm not sure that is a positive development for anyone.

We should be trying to broker peace. What we are doing is far from that unfortunately.

That is such flawed upside down appeasement talk.

You dont send bombs and weapons to kill Russian soldiers, you send them to the nation of Ukraine to defend itself from anyone.

If Russia or any nation violates all tenets of international law, and invades a peaceful sovereign nation to kill it's innocent citizens, the Ukrainians have every right to defend their land and citizens, and all countries of the world who believe in the international rules based order have a moral responsibility to help them defend themselves

Russia is a lawless aggressor nation using murder and violence on a fake manufactured pretext, assassinates opposition, uses chemical weapons on UK soil, is doing everything even before this to try and destabilise the west and now whose troops are all over another sovereign nation, destroying civilian infrastructure and murdering people.

I'm proud we and others are sending military aid. As the snake island defenders said to the Russian naval vessel. Go f*** yourselves.

Get out or get killed. End of

 

[jakarta]

Dan Walker concluded a suitably sombre interview with BBC Security Correspondent, Frank Gardner about Putin’s nuclear capability then gurned into camera 1 as he couldn’t wait to tell us, “…but hey - never mind all that depressing world destruction stuff! President Zelensky won Strictly!”

Did anyone else pick up on the not so subtle shirt and tie combination from Frank? Top Man...

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Dame Meg Hillier (Labour) being interviewed on Sky about resettlement of Ukrainian refugees. The correspondent in Kiev asked her for a ‘reasonably long answer’ while he sorts himself out as air raid sirens going off. That’s a first !

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We are trying to get my in-laws here at the moment but nobody seems to know if it's feasible or not- sounds like it's not as thing stand for these reasons. They're going to Ireland if we can't get some kind of definitive guidance in the coming days.

Seems like Gov are doing as little as they can, seeing how bad the public outcry is then re-evaluating. The 'invitation' for Ukrainians to come as seasonal fruit pickers was beyond insulting.

I hope they can get to Ireland. I agree with your last sentence. Then the MPs have got the cheek to say Britain was way out in front helping refugees.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I guess if we are going to cross reference events today with WW2 here is a unelected German leader speaking for a German dominated continent bloc laying claim to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-eu-commission-chief-von-der-leyen-invite/

A European empire that used to stretch from Lisbon to Poland now wants more living room?

At least we will now get an opportunity tord see how many Europeans want to fight for this new Europe……..maybe they can push a bit further and hold on to Stalingrad this time?

Even by your standards it is laughable to suggest anyone is going to march on Volgograd.

Lol.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1498027309151961094[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Dan Walker concluded a suitably sombre interview with BBC Security Correspondent, Frank Gardner about Putin’s nuclear capability then gurned into camera 1 as he couldn’t wait to tell us, “…but hey - never mind all that depressing world destruction stuff! President Zelensky won Strictly!”

It's on a family breakfast show so probably trying to lighten the mood especially if children watching.