[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Igzilla]

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This must be the most humiliating video of all time for the Russian army. The Ukrainians sure do have a great sense of humour.

 

[A1X]

Interesting thread on what Putin's orders actually mean

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[Thunder Bolt]

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[Neville's Breakfast]

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As I said to the other poster you should ‘wait for the detail’ before condemning. I agree with you that we should accept Ukrainian refugees. The quote is from a sky reporter who says they are working on the detail just as they did on the offer to refugees from Hong Kong.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Defence minister asked by a stupid tv presenter, "Are we getting arms into Ukraine?",
"Yes"
"So we are getting them over the border?"
"Yes (smiling)"
"How are we doing it?"
"Er... No comment" Smile turns to look of WTF.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I'm pretty sure that "special mode of combat duty of the deterrence force" is the direct Russian translation of "double secret probation" in Animal House.

 

[beorhthelm]

Russian shares on LSE make crypto look like a safe investment this morning. Russian exchange is suspended.

 

[Eric the meek]

From the BBC:

'In a statement posted to Facebook, Ukrainian officials said approximately 5,300 Russian troops have been killed, and claimed that 191 tanks, 29 fighter jets, 29 helicopters and 816 armoured personnel carriers have been destroyed by Ukraine's forces.'

No wonder Putin is becoming desperate. It looks like Putin v Zelensky was indeed a mismatch, but not in the way Putin intended.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

That is such flawed upside down appeasement talk.

You dont send bombs and weapons to kill Russian soldiers, you send them to the nation of Ukraine to defend itself from anyone.

If Russia or any nation violates all tenets of international law, and invades a peaceful sovereign nation to kill it's innocent citizens, the Ukrainians have every right to defend their land and citizens, and all countries of the world who believe in the international rules based order have a moral responsibility to help them defend themselves

Russia is a lawless aggressor nation using murder and violence on a fake manufactured pretext, assassinates opposition, uses chemical weapons on UK soil, is doing everything even before this to try and destabilise the west and now whose troops are all over another sovereign nation, destroying civilian infrastructure and murdering people.

I'm proud we and others are sending military aid. As the snake island defenders said to the Russian naval vessel. Go f*** yourselves.

Get out or get killed. End of

Exactly. If we were sending arms for Ukraine to attack Russia it would be different. If Russia wasn't attacking a neighbouring country, their boys wouldn't be in any danger at all.

(And we'll keep quiet about the arms we sell to Saudi Arabia, who are bombing hospitals in Yemen. But that's Global Britain doing business, of course)

 

[The Clamp]

I would err on the side of his nuclear rhetoric being a distraction form the fact his troops are doing as well as he’d hoped. It’s unnerving but it does need to be out into context.

Having said that, we have to work on the fact he has immense nuclear capability and is mad enough to use it. Possibly a warning detonation over the North Sea. Which would likely trigger multiple strikes around the globe.

As counter intuitive as it appears we need to have a clear de-escalation path for Putin to climb down. Leaving him zero options is the quickest way to Nuclear war. Which isn’t a war, it’s mutual destruction.

 

[Eric the meek]

An article from the BBC this morning examining the most important will he / won’t he question in the world right now. It’s not exactly a reassuring read.

Will Putin push the nuclear button?

Let me begin with an admission. So many times, I've thought: "Putin would never do this." Then he goes and does it.

"He'd never annex Crimea, surely?" He did.

"He'd never start a war in the Donbas." He did.

"He'd never launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine." He has.

I've concluded that the phrase "would never do" doesn't apply to Vladimir Putin.

And that raises an uncomfortable question:

"He'd never press the nuclear button first. Would he?"

It's not a theoretical question. Russia's leader has just put his country's nuclear forces on "special" alert, complaining of "aggressive statements" over Ukraine by Nato leaders.

Listen closely to what President Putin has been saying. Last Thursday when he announced on TV his "special military operation" (in reality, a full-scale invasion of Ukraine), he delivered a chilling warning:

"To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history."

"Putin's words sound like a direct threat of nuclear war," believes Nobel Peace Prize laureate Dmitry Muratov, chief editor of the Novaya Gazeta newspaper.

"In that TV address, Putin wasn't acting like the master of the Kremlin, but the master of the planet; in the same way the owner of a flash car shows off by twirling his keyring round his finger, Putin was twirling the nuclear button. He's said many times: if there is no Russia, why do we need the planet? No one paid any attention. But this is a threat that if Russia isn't treated as he wants, then everything will be destroyed."

In a 2018 documentary, President Putin commented that "…if someone decides to annihilate Russia, we have the legal right to respond. Yes, it will be a catastrophe for humanity and for the world. But I'm a citizen of Russia and its head of state. Why do we need a world without Russia in it?"

Fast forward to 2022. Putin has launched a full-scale war against Ukraine, but the Ukrainian armed forces are putting up stiff resistance; Western nations have - to the Kremlin's surprise - united to impose potentially crippling economic and financial sanctions against Moscow. The very existence of the Putin system may have been put in doubt.

"Putin's in a tight spot," believes Moscow-based defence analyst Pavel Felgenhauer. "He doesn't have many options left, once the West freezes the assets of the Russian Central bank and Russia's financial system actually implodes. That will make the system unworkable.

"One option for him is to cut gas supplies to Europe, hoping that will make the Europeans climb down. Another option is to explode a nuclear weapon somewhere over the North Sea between Britain and Denmark and see what happens."

If Vladimir Putin did choose a nuclear option, would anyone in his close circle try to dissuade him? Or stop him?

"Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."

And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.

"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."

The war in Ukraine is Vladimir Putin's war. If the Kremlin leader achieves his military aims, Ukraine's future as a sovereign nation will be in doubt. If he is perceived to be failing and suffers heavy casualties, the fear is that could prompt the Kremlin to adopt more desperate measures.

Especially if "would never do" no longer applies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

Maybe the political elites toe the line. But the ordinary Russian doesn't always take the side of the ruler. Russian revolution? Both Lenin and Stalin were murdered.

Yesterday, there were protests in nearly 50 Russian cities.

Edit: Lenin was shot and died later from his injuries.

 

[The Clamp]

I have to say, as cheering as it is for soldiers telling Russia to “go F yourself”, people tweeting burnt out tanks and people on social media celebrating Ukrainian victories and mocking Putin, it’s not a great idea if it pushes Putin to think “I’ll wipe the smile off your faces”. Defiance is one thing, antagonising is another and it’s a dangerous game.

 

[Is it PotG?]

A sobering piece from the objective and strictly impartial Beeb.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

"In a 2018 documentary, President Putin commented that "…if someone decides to annihilate Russia, we have the legal right to respond. Yes, it will be a catastrophe for humanity and for the world. But I'm a citizen of Russia and its head of state. Why do we need a world without Russia in it?"

 

[Seagull27]

As I said to the other poster you should ‘wait for the detail’ before condemning. I agree with you that we should accept Ukrainian refugees. The quote is from a sky reporter who says they are working on the detail just as they did on the offer to refugees from Hong Kong.

I disagree - the pressure should be kept on the government UNTIL they release details that are satisfactory. Every day we wait is another day that we're not helping refugees who are in need.

 

[pearl]

https://youtu.be/7xd0WlrSEik

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As I said to the other poster you should ‘wait for the detail’ before condemning. I agree with you that we should accept Ukrainian refugees. The quote is from a sky reporter who says they are working on the detail just as they did on the offer to refugees from Hong Kong.

It looks as though some minds are changing. Condemning is a strong word, but I have tried to post facts.

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[vegster]

Maybe the political elites toe the line. But the ordinary Russian doesn't always take the side of the ruler. Russian revolution? Both Lenin and Stalin were murdered.

Yesterday, there were protests in nearly 50 Russian cities.

Edit: Lenin was shot and died later from his injuries.

I thought Stalin died as a result of complications from a Stroke ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It looks as though some minds are changing. Condemning is a strong word, but I have tried to post facts.

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That’s good news and yes, you have posted facts.

 

[jakarta]

Maybe the political elites toe the line. But the ordinary Russian doesn't always take the side of the ruler. Russian revolution? Both Lenin and Stalin were murdered.

Yesterday, there were protests in nearly 50 Russian cities.

Edit: Lenin was shot and died later from his injuries.

Er... Both died of strokes, thought that was widely known?

 

[sydney]

Maybe the political elites toe the line. But the ordinary Russian doesn't always take the side of the ruler. Russian revolution? Both Lenin and Stalin were murdered.

Yesterday, there were protests in nearly 50 Russian cities.

Edit: Lenin was shot and died later from his injuries.

your last line (Edit) seems to be the best outcome , the guy is , despite continuous provocation by the west (America mainly under the guise of NATO ) the guy is still dangerously unhinged in his slanted view of the world ...."if there is no Russia then why do we need a planet"......wtf...?? the man who ended the world as we know it ...!!? i do believe that Nato and America have a lot to answer for ....continually poking the wasps nest has been anti- diplomacy over the last 30 years.