[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Wrong-Direction]

Don't know a lot about this but say NATO had a little nibble back at Russia and Putin got the hump, being the mad man he is and worse case scenario he decided it was time for the nukes....... Is that it? Or would Russia have people to put the brakes on it?
Surely one nutter can't devastate the world.

I was just thinking what if he doesn't take Ukraine and it drags out for months, will his ego be so pissed off he starts on the rest of us..

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[amexer]

My take is that the only comparison that was originally being made, was that of the constant stream of lies, which emanates from them both - I don't think the content of the lies was being compared.
Lies are lies, whomever they come from.

Interesting forum until similar to Political ones on here people cant resist bringing Boris into it.

 

[MTSeagulls]

Horrifying !, I'm genuinely surprised though that there is so little footage of the conflict in the public domain given the huge number of camera phones these days ?

They are pretty graphic with news coverage here. They frequently show people being shot or killed on motorcycle accidents and will repeat the coverage over and over.

 

[birthofanorange]

Interesting forum until similar to Political ones on here people cant resist bringing Boris into it.

Fair point, but as he had been brought into it, I think my/any response is valid.

But yes, this thread is solely about the situation in Ukraine.

 

[Bold Seagull]

154K in Italy
135K in France
122K in Germany
342K in Russia
943K in USA

Our Govt. has made some huge mistakes re COVID - as have all the above - but PLEASE can we keep this thread about the tragedy unfolding in Ukraine.

Find it really odd that the people that don't want certain subjects to be discussed on this thread STILL have to make their own point on the very thing they're asking not to be discussed, then try to shut it down by having the last word. Just leave it if you don't want it discussed.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

My take is that the only comparison that was originally being made, was that of the constant stream of lies, which emanates from them both - I don't think the content of the lies was being compared.
Lies are lies, whomever they come from.

No worries, let’s not complain then when Trump makes similar accusations against Hilary Clinton. You get the politics you deserve and we have tyrants like Sergei Lavrov to contend with.

 

[The Wookiee]

Futile gestures on my part, but, myself and the athletes I work with have just withdrawn from an online events contract with a multi national as it would involve their Russian offices. Cost us a tidy sum but principles above money.

That will learn them.

How are those Russian people involved in this ?

 

[Napper]

It's hard to know because the history of the Baltics and this region is soaked in bloodshed and goes back 100s of years. I can only make some weird analogy that if say Scotland and Wales got their full independence then over decades appeared to be aligning themselves and joining political unions with what we saw as our direct enemies, then it would be an uncomfortable situation. Perhaps the nationalistic rhetoric would be 'lets get Scotland and Wales back to make Britain Great again. History might suggest Putin isn't on some crazed mission to conquer Europe, but does feel that Ukraine allowed the freedom to stray toward the West has gone too far for their or his liking, and it's time to get them back in the fold - tragically by force. As you, I don't honestly know, the history though is interesting. The Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Russian wars with the Ottoman Empire - Ukraine and Crimea often the battle grounds over a long period of time. This is an interesting article in the Washington Post.

very much so.

Ukraine is right on his door step and he's now been tested and is pushing back. Nato been pushing for 25 years and now arriving at his border.

I don't agree with his actions but aside from our media , it does make sense his anger.

Question for me is the plan after. I suspect there isn't one and he will just be happy to have his borders not in Natos hands. I expect he will achieve this and then everything will calm down .. . . . for now

 

[Poojah]

Having lost the Champions League final, Formula One has now cancelled the Russian Grand Prix. They really are isolating themselves from the world. Or rather Putin is.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Surprisingly quick action by UEFA in taking the CL final away - however UEFA / FIFA need to go further and boot any remaining teams in European cups out and ban Russia from WC

 

[essbee1]

Surprisingly quick action by UEFA in taking the CL final away - however UEFA / FIFA need to go further and boot any remaining teams in European cups out and ban Russia from WC

This. 100%.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Having lost the Champions League final, Formula One has now cancelled the Russian Grand Prix. They really are isolating themselves from the world. Or rather Putin is.

Hopefully Gene Haas, a proud American will be doing everything to kick the Mazepin's out of his team. This may be helped by sanctions in Haas having the confidence to tear up the contracts. An oligarch close to Putin having his son kicked out of the sport may well be the kind of big hits against the oligarchs that have them turning against their leader.

 

[cloud]

SWIFT ban (looks like Germany, Cyprus, Italy not on board though)
Travel ban on ALL Russians (to UK, Canada, EU, USA, Australia) - we need the people of Russia to see what this means for them.
Remove RT
Asset freeze on all Russians / Russian Companies - delisting from London/Frankfurt/New York these Russian Companies

If you remove Russia from Swift, they will ally themselves with regimes such as China, Iran, Cuba and Nicaragua. You are then up against a strong cartel of anti-US countries who would do far much more damage than just Russia.

Also, having Russian assets in London reduces the chance of Russia attacking London. Once you confiscate these assets, they will have every reason to attack.

 

[peterward]

This is spot on. Much as it pains us, there is only so much we can do. If it wasn't for nuclear weapons then Russia could be easily pushed back by conventional forces of the combined NATO effort, probably all the way back to Moscow. But we don't live in that world, and likely never will again. It's awful to sit here powerless, and I get why people are upset / angry at that, but unless you want a nuclear missile blowing up in your face then that is the only option we have militarily.

Ultimately, though, we can and should be doing more in Europe to counter Russia. There are essentially two issues at play;

1. The UK is hooked on Russian money, in the City of London, in London property ownership and in the fundraising efforts of the Conservative Party.
2. The EU is hooked on Russian energy, and despite making some moves toward weaning themselves off it have done nothing like enough for too long because it's easy and cheap.

Until those two are addressed, and both will involve some level of pain for those two, we will remain unable to properly do anything about Russia in these circumstances.

It doesnt neccessarily mean WW3, it is an escalation it would put NATO and article 5 against the russians.

But I dont know why we cant give the Ukrainians attack missiles. and more precision hardware, make them neutral coloured without insignia and allow them to be fired from ukrainian territory. No troops, more sophisticated offensive weapons.

Ukrainian governemnt just made another plea for more weapons, as we discuss sanctions and the like, the guys dying need more weapons.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If you remove Russia from Swift, they will ally themselves with regimes such as China, Iran, Cuba and Nicaragua. You are then up against a strong cartel of anti-US countries who would do far much more damage than just Russia.

Also, having Russian assets in London reduces the chance of Russia attacking London. Once you confiscate these assets, they will have every reason to attack.

And yet the talk is that the US was prepared to suspend them from Swift. European countries are the objectors.
London (and Moscow) are protected by nuclear deterrent not Russian playboys buying houses.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It doesnt neccessarily mean WW3, it is an escalation it would put NATO and article 5 against the russians.

But I dont know why we cant give the Ukrainians attack missiles. and more precision hardware, make them neutral coloured without insignia and allow them to be fired from ukrainian territory. No troops, more sophisticated offensive weapons.

Ukrainian governemnt just made another plea for more weapons, as we discuss sanctions and the like, the guys dying need more weapons.

How do you know we're not? It's not exactly something you likely advertise, however the press releases over months has been that we have been continuously sending weapons to Ukraine since 2021 and been sending troops to train them how to use them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting forum until similar to Political ones on here people cant resist bringing Boris into it.

Isn't he our PM?

I'd forgotten, until you brought him into it

 

[portslade seagull]

I was just thinking what if he doesn't take Ukraine and it drags out for months, will his ego be so pissed off he starts on the rest of us..

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It wouldn't surprise me that he has plans for the Baltic states in place for a future date

 

[peterward]

Well done EU. Lets immediately follow suit.

"EU to freeze European assets held by Putin and Lavrov
We've just got some news in: an official for the EU says the bloc has decided to freeze European assets held by Russian President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

It's unclear however if either man holds significant assets in the EU.

We will bring you more details as we get them."

 

[peterward]

How do you know we're not? It's not exactly something you likely advertise, however the press releases over months has been that we have been continuously sending weapons to Ukraine since 2021 and been sending troops to train them how to use them.

Of course I dont know what we're doing, but we have constantly advertised we are only giving defensive lethal force. Like stinger or anti tank missiles.

They need offensive lethal force to attack the russian positions, and whilst we may be doing that covertly, the facts on the ground, plus Ukrainian governement pleading for more weapons suggest we're all not doing enough in this extreme hour of need.