[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Bry Nylon]

A grim day, not least for the innocent Ukrainians. Not only do they face an invasion, but have been falsely accused of genocide.

So, I thought I would post a few reasons why we should remain hopeful and keep our chins up.

1) The BBC report wrote of Putin's speech as coming from a parallel universe, with him trying to rewrite history, in a long-winded attempt to justify his actions. He has a grievance against the west, and wants to reverse the break up of the old Soviet Union. Ukraine is first on his list. We must assume other countries are also on that list. At least we now know his agenda. It's out in the open.

2) The BBC also said that the security council meeting was an awkward affair, with a semi-circle of intelligence advisers in front of Putin, each taking the mic and telling him exactly what he wanted to hear. I like the sound of that. He is feared, and he plays on it, so he is surrounded by 'yes men' who won't have the guts to tell him when he's wrong. Not only does Putin not listen, but his staff will be reluctant to disagree with him, or tell him when there is bad news. That's a big weakness.

3) All through this nightmare, I have been highly impressed with the west's ability to listen in. I think it was British intelligence who identified four named individuals who Putin was lining up to head their new regime in Kyiv. This gave us early warning of their true intentions. The Americans have said they know of the existence of a 'kill-list' of Ukrainians the Russians would seek to eliminate. Presumably those on the list have been forewarned by the Americans. The point is, we appear to be very capable of gathering intelligence from the Russians themselves.

4) The Americans are on board with this. The west is united against Putin.

I really hope you are right.

And I also really hope the western governments are true to their word regarding sanctions on the Russian billionaires that operate with seeming impunity in our capital cities. Putin remains in power partly at their behest and the thought of their ATM cards suddenly not working, their kids’ school fees bouncing and their Harrods charge cards getting declined is long, long overdue.

 

[Easy 10]

One step at a time, Putin is provoking a war. It's farcical to claim that the hundreds of thousands of forces he has amounted on the Ukraine borders are there on "exercise drills".

Now we're seeing Russian boots on the ground in the eastern separatist regions of Ukraine, its only a matter of time before Putin finds a reason to kick off and fully invade. Russians are LYING SCUM, and they will blame and point fingers at anyone and everyone to justify their duplicity. They do it on every level, from politics to sport, on an industrious scale.

 

[beorhthelm]

I really hope you are right.

And I also really hope the western governments are true to their word regarding sanctions on the Russian billionaires that operate with seeming impunity in our capital cities. Putin remains in power partly at their behest and the thought of their ATM cards suddenly not working, their kids’ school fees bouncing and their Harrods charge cards getting declined is long, long overdue.

there's rather larger issues of their gas exports and billions in loans. cutting off Visa/Mastercard and Swift in Russia, with business funding being cut off will be where the real pain is felt.

 

[Easy 10]

Our gas dependency to Russia is only around 10%. But everything has a knock-on.

Germany's reliance is around 80%, so if Putin turns off the taps in reaction to tit-for-tat NATO-enforced sanctions, then who knows where that goes.

 

[Eric the meek]

I really hope you are right.

And I also really hope the western governments are true to their word regarding sanctions on the Russian billionaires that operate with seeming impunity in our capital cities. Putin remains in power partly at their behest and the thought of their ATM cards suddenly not working, their kids’ school fees bouncing and their Harrods charge cards getting declined is long, long overdue.

There was also talk of publishing the ownership structures of the Russian companies operating in London. That would be a hoot.

Did you know that Sergei Lavrov, Russian foreign secretary is fluent in Dhavehi, the language spoken in the Maldives? There'll be a reason for that.

 

[Easy 10]

Anyone miss Sergei Gotsmanov ? Wonder where he is now.

Simpler times.

 

[Bry Nylon]

there's rather larger issues of their gas exports and billions in loans. cutting off Visa/Mastercard and Swift in Russia, with business funding being cut off will be where the real pain is felt.

I know, of course, that you are correct and my analysis is way too simplistic and micro in scale to make any difference. But Big Business always finds a way and they’ll never find a meaningful way off winding back these eye watering loans, credits and commercial transactions.

So just on a personal level, it would give me huge satisfaction to see an oligarch stick £90 of fuel in his Range Rover Overfinch at the BP in Chobham tomorrow morning, only to be told, “I’m sorry Mr Bollokov. This card doesn’t appear to be working. Have you any other means of payment?”

Yes, it won’t make any difference in the grand scale of the horror unfolding on the Ukrainian borders tonight - but it would give me immense satisfaction.

FFS. What a world we live in.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Anyone miss Sergei Gotsmanov ? Wonder where he is now.

Simpler times.

Driving a bus in the USA ( Minnesota )


https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?30353-What-ever-happened-to-Sergei-Gotsmanov

 

[Easy 10]

Comrade's Bollockov and Suckmikockyabiytch have a LOT to answer for when this is all over.

 

[Swansman]

thing is recognition of a break away state doesnt make invasion of that part of Ukraine not an invasion. it might work for home crowd* but nobody else is buying it. escalate to war/sanctions with no strategic gain as the region is already Russian controlled.

(*i wonder how much it plays here with modern communications. i know they have controlled interwebs but i dont believe its closed to external news)

Similar to here, most have been brainwashed with propaganda about the evils of the opposing side and most will not be particularly interested in what the lying media from the other side has to say about things. Just like most here wont read RT or similar.

Many of those who are generally critical of their government will in a sharp situation drop all their thought, go emotional and "support" "their" empire. Just like here.

 

[peterward]

Troops are going in. That's the start of the invasion then. I hope Putin gets his arse handed to him. I have no doubt British special forces will be hard at work as we speak to make that happen.
War in Europe. Again. Christ. Will we ever ****ing learn.

War in Europe again..... Because a ruthless despot without any value of human life, without a single ounce of truth, is trying to recreate empire by military force, false flags and propaganda.

Which despot is this?

Putin is this generations Hitler. This is the fourth Reich and this menace of our times must be defeated.

 

[peterward]

there's rather larger issues of their gas exports and billions in loans. cutting off Visa/Mastercard and Swift in Russia, with business funding being cut off will be where the real pain is felt.

There is and that is the nuclear option. It should be on the table, but swift should be the cherry on the cake and done last.

I'd love for us to do it, however, if we did people say Russia would just stop paying loan debts or financial commitments and Germany wouldn't be able to pay for gas...... Of course they could, they could use bitcoin or even gold.

However, in advance western nations should prepare for it...... like a draw down and removal of assets from Russia, then if/when cutting them off from swift, to seize assets/companies/properties and use them to pay outstanding Russian debts.They would try and respond in kind but if planned, there shouldn't be much left to seize of western companies/governments.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Similar to here, most have been brainwashed with propaganda about the evils of the opposing side and most will not be particularly interested in what the lying media from the other side has to say about things. Just like most here wont read RT or similar.

Many of those who are generally critical of their government will in a sharp situation drop all their thought, go emotional and "support" "their" empire. Just like here.

This is not true though is it, take for example the Iraq war, there was widespread opposition to the invasion of Iraq in the UK and across the western world. A large percentage of the population did not believe the government spun line about the threat of weapons of mass destruction. People in this country took a lot of interest in the opposing side of the argument and it sparked a huge political debate. The lies told to the British public ended up permanently tarnishing the reputation of the then prime minister Tony Blair.

 

[beorhthelm]

So just on a personal level, it would give me huge satisfaction to see an oligarch stick £90 of fuel in his Range Rover Overfinch at the BP in Chobham tomorrow morning, only to be told, “I’m sorry Mr Bollokov. This card doesn’t appear to be working. Have you any other means of payment?”

you dont think Mr Bollokov doesnt have a card in the name of Mr Smith? half of them are set up in the west precisely for this, to be out of Russia when it goes pear-shaped. it doesnt really make a direct impact on Putin and Russian government, makes assumptions Russians abroad have influence.

There is and that is the nuclear option. It should be on the table, but swift should be the cherry on the cake and done last.

I'd love for us to do it, however, if we did people say Russia would just stop paying loan debts or financial commitments and Germany wouldn't be able to pay for gas...... Of course they could, they could use bitcoin or even gold.

However, in advance western nations should prepare for it...... like a draw down and removal of assets from Russia, then if/when cutting them off from swift, to seize assets/companies/properties and use them to pay outstanding Russian debts.They would try and respond in kind but if planned, there shouldn't be much left to seize of western companies/governments.

well if Germany carries on buying Russian gas then nothing is going to change, he'll carry on until he's in Kyiv. all very well seizing assets abroad, cutting off their primary export and banking system is the only practical damage we can do short of sending in troops. if you want sanctions they need to be hard, need to target the infrastructure of the country or they'll have no impact.

 

[portlock seagull]

Totally agree.

On every level, Russia are utter filth. They lie, obfuscate, muddy waters, deny everything, but basically do whatever the f*ck they want.

Their government are lying scum. Their sporting authorities are lying scum. And (in my experience both in Egypt and Tunisia), many of their tourists are arrogant, entitled filth. Mexico is a blessed relief from these people, which is why its a big reason for being my No1 holiday destination.

I absolutely despise Russia.

Same here. Their general mindset in my experience is totally at odds with ours. These are people who will say good morning when it’s evening and still maintain they’re right.

 

[pb21]

There was also talk of publishing the ownership structures of the Russian companies operating in London. That would be a hoot.

Did you know that Sergei Lavrov, Russian foreign secretary is fluent in Dhavehi, the language spoken in the Maldives? There'll be a reason for that.

I was reading about Lavrov yesterday. Apparently he first worked in the soviet office in Sri Lanka and at the time oversaw the Maldives too.

Massive sanctions should be coming soon IMO. They will hurt us too, but in the long run I think it will give the best outcome. There will have to be some collective sharing of the pain too, maybe why the US seem to be more reluctant for heavy sanctions.

The only issue I see is how China react.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Russia v Ukraine... any idea on the kick off time ?

I did enjoy the Russian propaganda news piece of the fella who had just had his leg blown off by a Ukraine shell.

He was writhing in agony as he was picked up by locals trying to help out. You could see all the blood around the point where his leg had been blown off but sadly for the Russians, his metal prosthetic leg fitting briefly pocked out. Now either that was fitted in the 10 minutes or so since his leg was blown off or the news piece was a complete fake. He’d clearly been legless for years.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1495856268464074753[/tweet]

Anyone expecting serious sanctions from the west is deluding themselves. Oh sure, they talk a good game, and most nations have passed the Magnitsky Act or derivations thereof, but let's face facts. Much of Europe is dependent on Russia for mineral resources and energy. The UK Governing party is awash with Russian money (to the extent the US administration fears our response will be tempered as a result) and the US is not going to risk nuclear armageddon over a small patch of eastern Ukraine most of their population couldn't place on a map even if it had a massive arrow pointing at it.

 

[peterward]

I really hope you are right.

And I also really hope the western governments are true to their word regarding sanctions on the Russian billionaires that operate with seeming impunity in our capital cities. Putin remains in power partly at their behest and the thought of their ATM cards suddenly not working, their kids’ school fees bouncing and their Harrods charge cards getting declined is long, long overdue.

maybe when we're at Stamford Bridge next, nobody leave after the game, we'll declare it independent and that we're forming the Chelsea people's Republic.

Roman tell your boss we're claiming the away end.

 

[peterward]

I did enjoy the Russian propaganda news piece of the fella who had just had his leg blown off by a Ukraine shell.

He was writhing in agony as he was picked up by locals trying to help out. You could see all the blood around the point where his leg had been blown off but sadly for the Russians, his metal prosthetic leg fitting briefly pocked out. Now either that was fitted in the 10 minutes or so since his leg was blown off or the news piece was a complete fake. He’d clearly been legless for years.

Is their a clip anywhere?