[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[portslade seagull]

Well they're not all fooled:

Never to be seen again once the FSB get hold of him for daring to question the Russian narrative

 

[Eric the meek]

Fm

Putin ins vulnerable now because he's messed up Russia's economy and because of the Russian lives he's losing, not because their elections have never been fair.

The 98% election 'victories' in the annexed parts of Ukraine strike me as a complete piss take, laughing in the face of free elections. If he wanted people to really believe the results, they could have pretended the victories were much more modest, and also different to each other.

For Putin, the alternative to 'being the winner of bogus elections' is not 'being the winner of free and fair elections', it's being the loser. I don't see how that would help his cause.

Obviously Putin doesn't want free and fair elections. They would indeed not help his cause. But I wasn't suggesting he wants free elections. I was suggesting he wants legitimacy.

He sees an election, however bogus, putting up false opponents etc, as worth doing because he thinks it gives him a mandate, however false it may be. The approval of the people, even though it is made up. He thinks it looks good. He thinks it strengthens his position. An election also has the added benefit of identifying any rivals....

Don't underestimate the grudge that Putin felt, and still feels, when he wasn't allowed to join Nato. He wanted the legitimacy he thought it would give him.

Now he will never get it.

 

[raymondo]

Of course Putin needs legitimacy. He craves it. That is why he wanted to join Nato, after he came to power. I suspect the Myanmar lot want it as well. All the time they are not 'legitimate' after an election win, they are vulnerable.

If only he had joined NATO, then we could all be fighting China instead ... sliding doors and all that.
You are right, in that he craves legitimacy with the western world, and craves power within his own.

 

[raymondo]

It's interesting sometimes to see him doing his day job...and being way out of touch.

 

[Eric the meek]

It's interesting sometimes to see him doing his day job...and being way out of touch.

'Why wasn't I told about this?' 'Who is responsible for keeping me informed of Moscow salaries?' - Vladimir Putin.

 

[Triggaaar]

Fm

Obviously Putin doesn't want free and fair elections. They would indeed not help his cause. But I wasn't suggesting he wants free elections. I was suggesting he wants legitimacy.

But you were questioning why Myanmar rulers would want to follow Russian elections, and you said that the whole point of elections is to be free, fair etc. That's what I disagree with.

While Putin would presumably like the public to love him and vote him in legitimately, he knows that's not happening, so he'd prefer his fake elections than to lose power. The Myanmar rulers are presumably worried that they would lose an election, so they're asking Russia for advice on how to run a fake election. I agree that Myanmar would like to be able to claim that their rule is legitimate (and we know it won't be), but they would rather win a fake election than lose a fair one.

 

[Eric the meek]

But you were questioning why Myanmar rulers would want to follow Russian elections, and you said that the whole point of elections is to be free, fair etc. That's what I disagree with.

While Putin would presumably like the public to love him and vote him in legitimately, he knows that's not happening, so he'd prefer his fake elections than to lose power. The Myanmar rulers are presumably worried that they would lose an election, so they're asking Russia for advice on how to run a fake election. I agree that Myanmar would like to be able to claim that their rule is legitimate (and we know it won't be), but they would rather win a fake election than lose a fair one.

And I'm still questioning why Myanmar rulers would ask Russia on how to run an election. It's a bit of red flag that. It might be worth noting that we have assumed that they want to run a fake election, but we don't actually know that.

I also still believe the whole point of elections is to select a representative, freely and fairly. If they were not freely and fairly elected, then the process is weaker, and the elected candidate is weaker.

A problem with Russia, is that all Russian citizens have been born, lived their lives, and died never knowing freedom, and never having experienced a free election. They don't know what one looks like, or how precious it is. They only have experience of fake elections.

This is why I questioned why Myanmar rulers were asking Russia for advice on running an election.

If they want to run a free election, Russia is not a good example.
If they want to run a fake election, and be seen as legitimate afterwards, Russia is also not a good example.

 

[Eric the meek]

The Russian aviation industry continues to decline:

 

[raymondo]

'Why wasn't I told about this?' 'Who is responsible for keeping me informed of Moscow salaries?' - Vladimir Putin.

"Well, Sir, I was worried you wouldn't like the answer ...so I didn't tell you ".

 

[raymondo]

The Russian aviation industry continues to decline:

Cancel all flights, Turkey, just cancel them.
I'm surprised Ruzzia has yet to blame NATO for exporting faulty Boeings to them.

 

[Bodian]

"Well, Sir, I was worried you wouldn't like the answer ...so I didn't tell you ".

And the guy who did tell him better not go near any windows for quite a while...

 

[SeagullinExile]

And as we’ve speculated before on here, there is probably Ukraine’s SAS equivalent operating in Russia..

Undoubtedly. The SSO has over 4000 Spetsnaz commandos at its disposal, which is quite a number.

 

[Eric the meek]

And the guy who did tell him better not go near any windows for quite a while...

You could be defenestrated for telling him and not telling him.

This can't be good for staff development.

 

[Triggaaar]

And I'm still questioning why Myanmar rulers would ask Russia on how to run an election. It's a bit of red flag that. It might be worth noting that we have assumed that they want to run a fake election, but we don't actually know that.

They're not idiots. If they wanted free and fair elections they'd ask the UK. They want to be assured of victory.

I also still believe the whole point of elections is to select a representative, freely and fairly.

Being a fan of democracy, I agree. But dictators will have a different view.

A problem with Russia, is that all Russian citizens have been born, lived their lives, and died never knowing freedom, and never having experienced a free election. They don't know what one looks like, or how precious it is. They only have experience of fake elections.

This is why I questioned why Myanmar rulers were asking Russia for advice on running an election.

If they want to run a free election, Russia is not a good example.

The people of Myanmar have had no more democracy than Russia and the rulers don't want a free election, they want to cling to power, but try and legitimise it. Putin, despite his method of rule, has been treated as legitimate ruler by the world (up until the invasion).

If they want to run a fake election, and be seen as legitimate afterwards, Russia is also not a good example.

Which country would you turn to for that?

 

[Triggaaar]

This can't be good for staff development.

"Supreme leader, I've overheard suggestions from some staff that the continued loss of naughty colleagues via windows is negatively affecting morale."

 

[Eric the meek]

Which country would you turn to for that?

I don't know. But not Russia.

I'm amazed that anyone is seeking advice from Russia on anything.

 

[Eric the meek]

I like this idea

Use frozen Russian money to buy US weapons for Ukraine. (I just hope the US gets a decent price for its state of the art weapons).

 

[Sirnormangall]

I am always surprised by these videos. I assume that really is Moscow, he has said what course he's on, he's very recognisable. The authorities can find him easily and he could be put on the front line or whatever.

It’s difficult to judge how credible 1420 is - but you’ll often find that they interview pro Putin people too, so I’m inclined to think it’s a good source

 

[Sirnormangall]

I like this idea

Use frozen Russian money to buy US weapons for Ukraine. (I just hope the US gets a decent price for its state of the art weapons).

Please…….bring it on. I just want to see Putin’s face and the response of the Russian media when it happens

 

[raymondo]