[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Insel affe]

A bit like Locadia playing in the position of false ten. He was really a false, false 10, as he wasn't a 10, nor a false 10, but a DJ instead.

shite at that too, not one Wuzels track in his set list.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

My view on false flag.

If Putin was going to do it, he would have done it away from Moscow
I don't see why he would need any pretext now to fire missiles at Ukraine or carry out further human rights violations.
He just doesn't gain from it. We know he wants to look the strongman and this makes him look weak.

 

[peterward]

Nothing would surprise me with Putin and the FSB.

But I would urge caution. The number of conspiracy theories on X is reaching ridiculous levels. I'm waiting for journalists in outlets I trust to report on this before giving it any credence

Likewise, I didnt take that as a given, just interesting..... more so when you see the actual FSB marching a couple of the suspects out of the forest, once caught, wearing exactly the same colour blue top and blue jeans.

Yes, because radicalised muslims are well known for teaming up with other European nations in order to launce terrorist attacks. It all makes sense now. Thanks Vlad.

Or to be more concise, a radical Islamist cell is secretly working for a Jewish President that heads an Orthodox Christian country?

 

[peterward]

I don't know. Neither do I know if they are 'foreigners' or guestworkers from elsewhere in the Russian Federation.
What is the implication of this regarding 'was the Crocus attack a false flag'? Are the authorities becoming genuinely scared of people who look different to them?
Or are they pretending to, to perpetuate the idea of a false flag?

One of the key reasons, so I've read, in why propagandists and states like Russia perpetuate many different narratives and so much disinformation, is partly to confuse, but primarily not so that you believe one of the false narratives, but so you tune out and actually believe nothing/doubt everything.

 

[Insel affe]

Likewise, I didnt take that as a given, just interesting..... more so when you see the actual FSB marching a couple of the suspects out of the forest, once caught, wearing exactly the same colour blue top and blue jeans.


Or to be more concise, a radical Islamist cell is secretly working for a Jewish President that heads an Orthodox Christian country?

That is just crazy enough to be true, thank Jebus I am a scientologist

 

[raymondo]

Likewise, I didnt take that as a given, just interesting..... more so when you see the actual FSB marching a couple of the suspects out of the forest, once caught, wearing exactly the same colour blue top and blue jeans.


Or to be more concise, a radical Islamist cell is secretly working for a Jewish President that heads an Orthodox Christian country?

"
more so when you see the actual FSB marching a couple of the suspects out of the forest, once caught, wearing exactly the same colour blue top and blue jeans."

I haven't seen that yet. Surely the connection is undeniable?? (except by Russian regime of course).

 

[vegster]

One thing puzzling me is that all four of the main attackers just got " picked up " ? True Islamist extremists would have gone down fighting. A Russian copper stopping that van with four armed terrorists isn't going to go home for dinner, they would have opened up with everything they had until shot dead.

 

[vegster]

One thing puzzling me is that all four of the main attackers just got " picked up " ? True Islamist extremists would have gone down fighting. A Russian copper stopping that van with four armed terrorists isn't going to go home for dinner, they would have opened up with everything they had until shot dead.

Just thought, we know that Putin and Co are top class liars ? How about the four or five terrorists actually died in the mall in one of the fires they started... Putin got the FSB to pick up 4 ethnic looking Russians simply to say " Look! We caught them ! " these 4 are going to be stitched up and will probably die mysteriously in prison in the next few months but, Putin will look like the defender of Russia again.

 

[Eric the meek]

One of the key reasons, so I've read, in why propagandists and states like Russia perpetuate many different narratives and so much disinformation, is partly to confuse, but primarily not so that you believe one of the false narratives, but so you tune out and actually believe nothing/doubt everything.

That matches Nielsen's analysis in post #14,737.

 

[raymondo]

I watched a Youtuber last night, that we haven't come across. His name is Anders Puck Nielsen, a Danish military analyst.

Summary: it wasn't a false flag. It was a real terrorist attack which the security services didn't respond to well. It was embarrassing for them, so the Kremlin is now busy pushing not just a 'Ukraine did it' but also a 'false flag' narrative, to sow confusion, to polarise the debate, and ensure people don't discuss the incompetence of the FSB.

See what you think. It's 9 minutes long. It sounds quite plausible.

I've watched it now but I still don't see why a false flag theory (or reality) could be helpful for Putin. Would Russians really think "our leader is so clever that he killed 150 citizens to make sure we support further action against Ukraine"?? I'm clearly missing something in the vlogger's argument.
Also, the video from Nexta that @peterward posted... how is it explained that the guys in the blue sweatshirts and jeans are the calm ones at the concert?

 

[raymondo]

Just thought, we know that Putin and Co are top class liars ? How about the four or five terrorists actually died in the mall in one of the fires they started... Putin got the FSB to pick up 4 ethnic looking Russians simply to say " Look! We caught them ! " these 4 are going to be stitched up and will probably die mysteriously in prison in the next few months but, Putin will look like the defender of Russia again.

Anything is possible

 

[peterward]

That matches Nielsen's analysis in post #14,737.

I'll try and watch later

 

[peterward]

I've watched it now but I still don't see why a false flag theory (or reality) could be helpful for Putin. Would Russians really think "our leader is so clever that he killed 150 citizens to make sure we support further action against Ukraine"?? I'm clearly missing something in the vlogger's argument.
Also, the video from Nexta that @peterward posted... how is it explained that the guys in the blue sweatshirts and jeans are the calm ones at the concert?

I haven't watched it yet, so not sure of his slant on that, but having seen with Mrs a lot of the Russian media propaganda clips around Crocus, some of them are saying that it's a western/ukrainain false flag by hiring Islamists. Or trying to make it appear as ISIS.

Again, that seems utterly ludicrous and it is, but that also might be for exactly the reasons that @Eric the meek cites from the Danish guy.

Some people in Russia are suggesting it could be a Russiam FSB false flag so let's throw in some more false flag narratives.?

 

[Eric the meek]

I've watched it now but I still don't see why a false flag theory (or reality) could be helpful for Putin. Would Russians really think "our leader is so clever that he killed 150 citizens to make sure we support further action against Ukraine"?? I'm clearly missing something in the vlogger's argument.
Also, the video from Nexta that @peterward posted... how is it explained that the guys in the blue sweatshirts and jeans are the calm ones at the concert?

Nielsen isn't suggesting that Putin killed the concert goers in a false flag. He is suggesting it was a real terrorist attack. But that given the FSB/Rosvgardia didn't respond well, he is now going full maskirovka with both 'it was Ukraine' but also pushing various false flag theories (all of which he knows are wrong) to confuse, muddy the waters, get people arguing amongst themselves, and ending up not knowing what or who to believe. In doing so, the Kremlin will steer the narrative away from the failure of the Russian state to protect its citizens after the embarrassment of dismissing a clear warning by US intelligence of an impending terrorist attack.

Do you see, that if this theory is correct, then you are seeing it working? We aren't discussing how the passage of time shows how hopelessly wrong Putin was when he dismissed the warning....

Regarding the guys in sweatshirts and jeans, I would need to see more vids and examples before I was convinced of that.

 

[Eric the meek]

I recommend those who haven't watched the Nielsen video yet, to do so. For me, it is a strong candidate for what happened.

(no false flag, a real terrorist attack, but an explosion of false flag theories in an attempt to confuse, obfuscate and derail discussion away from Putin's weakness).

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't have time to watch at the moment...but why would Kremlin push, allow a false flag narrative at all??

Just because it confuses people. Some saying it's a terrorist attack, some saying it's Ukraine, some saying it's ISIS, with the end result that people are arguing about who it was. If instead the truth was out, that it was an attack by ISIS, then people could focus on blaming Putin for their police not responding quicker.

 

[Eric the meek]

Just because it confuses people. Some saying it's a terrorist attack, some saying it's Ukraine, some saying it's ISIS, with the end result that people are arguing about who it was. If instead the truth was out, that it was an attack by ISIS, then people could focus on blaming Putin for their police not responding quicker.

That's it. And it was an attack he was warned about. He can't deny that, as he made a speech about it, telling Russia to ignore the warning.

Anywhere else, it would be instant resignation. In Russia, if he resigns, or is removed from office, he loses the protection of the state and he's dead.

 

[raymondo]

Nielsen isn't suggesting that Putin killed the concert goers in a false flag. He is suggesting it was a real terrorist attack. But that given the FSB/Rosvgardia didn't respond well, he is now going full maskirovka with both 'it was Ukraine' but also pushing various false flag theories (all of which he knows are wrong) to confuse, muddy the waters, get people arguing amongst themselves, and ending up not knowing what or who to believe. In doing so, the Kremlin will steer the narrative away from the failure of the Russian state to protect its citizens after the embarrassment of dismissing a clear warning by US intelligence of an impending terrorist attack.

Do you see, that if this theory is correct, then you are seeing it working? We aren't discussing how the passage of time shows how hopelessly wrong Putin was when he dismissed the warning....

Regarding the guys in sweatshirts and jeans, I would need to see more vids and examples before I was convinced of that.

Ok, I get the theory now thanks.
But the guys in sweatshirts and jeans are something, IMO.

 

[raymondo]

That's it. And it was an attack he was warned about. He can't deny that, as he made a speech about it, telling Russia to ignore the warning.

Anywhere else, it would be instant resignation. In Russia, if he resigns, or is removed from office, he loses the protection of the state and he's dead.

Then watch out for a 'resignation' of someone at the top of the FSB, or Russian intelligence...if it were ever made public.

 

[raymondo]

Or Nielsen is a foreign agent on the payroll of the FSB/ Kremlin...and is part of the maskirovka himself