[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

It would be delicious if all this utter bollix began to crumble around them. It is so preposterous, there's a chance it will.

 

[peterward]

It would be delicious if all this utter bollix began to crumble around them. It is so preposterous, there's a chance it will.

I truly pray for that my friend

 

[The Clamp]

None of this is going to end well for Putin. History isn’t kind to those who play God.

At some point the fight is going to have to be taken to him.

Half of me wishes they would just get it over with and send in a kill squad to take the **** out. And his ridiculous regime.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I don't believe that most Russians seriously believe what their governments say. They have just learnt to appear to play along with whatever who is in power says until they see that their time is up and then do the same with who or whatever replaces them. They won't believe this but few will openly challenge it. I have had quite a lot of contact with Russians over the years and lived in Moscow when I was much younger and they are, through bitter experience, deeply sceptical about their leaders. Those singing along to the national anthem in Red Square last week will turn on Putin very quickly when he appears to be weakening and he knows it.

 

[peterward]

Nazi Islamist state with Jewish President is a false flag.

 

[raymondo]

No idea who that supposed IS terrorist is? but he certainly didn't look happy to be meeting his Virgins.

I'm not sure he's going to... they clearly weren't suicide bombers. If it was a false flag he'll be getting his payment and taxied back to his village.

 

[raymondo]

I don't believe that most Russians seriously believe what their governments say. They have just learnt to appear to play along with whatever who is in power says until they see that their time is up and then do the same with who or whatever replaces them. They won't believe this but few will openly challenge it. I have had quite a lot of contact with Russians over the years and lived in Moscow when I was much younger and they are, through bitter experience, deeply sceptical about their leaders. Those singing along to the national anthem in Red Square last week will turn on Putin very quickly when he appears to be weakening and he knows it.

I'm sure you are right.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not sure he's going to... they clearly weren't suicide bombers. If it was a false flag he'll be getting his payment and taxied back to his village.

Or killed to silence him. Which is much more likely, isn’t it really.

But to be honest, that’s a guy that has been pulled out of some gulag or POW camp somehere and forced to recite a script.

He’ll be executed before long and once again, Hercule Putin has solved the riddle and saved the day.

 

[raymondo]

Or killed to silence him. Which is much more likely, isn’t it really.

Yeah, probably... payment going to his family then, or not of course.

 

[raymondo]

If, in the next few weeks, the head of the FSB is replaced or meets a mysterious death... then it was ISIS.

If on the other hand he receives a medal for services to the state... then it was a false flag.

Is that too simple .

 

[Easy 10]

If Russia are seriously going to point the finger of blame at Ukraine for this atrocity, then you have to ask - what on earth would Ukraine actually gain from it ??

At the moment, Ukraine have the full support of the UN, NATO and most of the western world in general. They are the ones who have been invaded. The notion that they would hit out at a soft target with cowardly gunmen going in and rinsing dozens, hundreds of concert-going civilians is laughable (well, not laughable, but you catch my gist).

If they are using this atrocity as a ham-fisted attempt to galvanise national support in their country for their dispicable, unjustified agression against Ukraine, then you would have to be a special kind of moron there to be triggered by this. I can't accept that ordinary Russians could be so THICK not to see through the propaganda, if thats the line that piggy-eyed deranged piece of filth is going to be pushing.

Someone just needs to put a bullet in the back of that scumbags head, pronto. If only there was a real Jack Reacher.

 

[maltaseagull]

Was just pointed out on Twitter, " Russia has effectively been a police state for the last 20 odd years, police and FSB control and patrol everywhere...so how come there is no armed security at a theatre in Moscow and it takes an hour for police and FSB to arrive " ?

20 years a Police state? Surely far far more?

 

[raymondo]

 

[beorhthelm]

dont know why anyone wants this to be a false flag. look at the comms out of Russia - possible traces of Ukrainian involvement, hardly emphatic conviction. Russia know its not Ukraine and can bearly even drum up some mock evidence, just making use of an utter failure of security to stir up other causes.

 

[A1X]

Given it's pretty clear the US and UK (at least) knew this was coming a good 10 days ago and warned Russia, who seemingly didn't act on it, the more interesting question IMHO is why they seemingly ignored the threat;

A. Arrogance and not wanting to be seen listening to "the west", which has had catastrophic consequences for the population
B. Deliberately didn't act in the hope of painting the blame on Ukraine, only for the attackers to be too organised and ISIS to beat them to the punch taking the wind out of their sails

Both are pretty abhorrent situations but one is, I believe, much worse than the other.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I don't buy the idea of a false flag operation. Popular opinion doesn't exist as a major factor in Russian politics. Even 1917 was more of a coup than a popular revolt. Putin needs the continued support of powerful individuals in the military, in his own government and those owning and managing commodities. I suspect they will be waiting to see what happens in the US elections as a Trump victory would be a game changer given his relationship with Putin.

 

[Eric the meek]

Given it's pretty clear the US and UK (at least) knew this was coming a good 10 days ago and warned Russia, who seemingly didn't act on it, the more interesting question IMHO is why they seemingly ignored the threat;

A. Arrogance and not wanting to be seen listening to "the west", which has had catastrophic consequences for the population
B. Deliberately didn't act in the hope of painting the blame on Ukraine, only for the attackers to be too organised and ISIS to beat them to the punch taking the wind out of their sails

Both are pretty abhorrent situations but one is, I believe, much worse than the other.

Perhaps a bit of both.

His speech in post 14,593 set the agenda. He judges others by his own very low standards of behaviour, so he dismissed the US warning as 'Western blackmail' and interference in Russia's internal affairs. The Russian people follow his lead of course. This is why Russia ignored the threat - because he ignored it.

 

[peterward]

Was just pointed out on Twitter, " Russia has effectively been a police state for the last 20 odd years, police and FSB control and patrol everywhere...so how come there is no armed security at a theatre in Moscow and it takes an hour for police and FSB to arrive " ?

One policeman for every granny and student at Navalny funeral and yet at this packed venue no cops and CCTV running the whole time.

Convenient

 

[peterward]

I don't buy the idea of a false flag operation. Popular opinion doesn't exist as a major factor in Russian politics. Even 1917 was more of a coup than a popular revolt. Putin needs the continued support of powerful individuals in the military, in his own government and those owning and managing commodities. I suspect they will be waiting to see what happens in the US elections as a Trump victory would be a game changer given his relationship with Putin.

You don't?

You realise this is exactly what Putin did in 1999. Murdering Russian civilians in Moscow apartments to galvanise society, that's not even an opinion, its proven as fact, to give himself a pretext to smash Chechnya (the false bogeyman) and be the hero who saves the day.

This is not a real politican but a KGB thug in a suit.

False flag is highly likely, and they fabricate narratives with staged events every week, just not always as big or as ruthless as this (if it was them)

1999 Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Given it's pretty clear the US and UK (at least) knew this was coming a good 10 days ago and warned Russia, who seemingly didn't act on it, the more interesting question IMHO is why they seemingly ignored the threat;

A. Arrogance and not wanting to be seen listening to "the west", which has had catastrophic consequences for the population
B. Deliberately didn't act in the hope of painting the blame on Ukraine, only for the attackers to be too organised and ISIS to beat them to the punch taking the wind out of their sails

Both are pretty abhorrent situations but one is, I believe, much worse than the other.

Probably nearer A than B but I doubt we will ever know. He may be primarily focussed on the possibility of Ukrainian sabotage-type operations in Russia, rather than the threat from Islamic groups, and making the assumption that they would target infrastructure. The country is on a war footing so protection of infrastructure would be far and away the top priority. We also don't know if deployment of people into the army has had any impact on resources in organisations like the militia who would usually be the frontline in domestic security.