[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[NooBHA]

This is incorrect - see Demographics of Crimea - Russians have only been in a majority since the turn of the 20th century, and very few lived there at the turn of the 19th. The traditional inhabitants of the peninsula are the Crimean Tatars.

Almost exactly as I said. The Russians deported the Tatars. They don't even want the Land, just the Ports.

Ukraine can't negotiate with the Russians. They have to simply say to the Crimean Population. " You decide and we will abide by it "

The word of the Russians is worthless. They signed an Agreement with the Chechyn's after the first " Invasion" there and then they broke that agreement and invaded them again. So Ukraine has to kick them out of the whole country.

Crimea is slightly different just because of the current demographic make up of the current population, so you can't force those people to live through future battles that they themselves night want to settle at the Ballot Box.

 

[portslade seagull]

Rumours that the Ukrainians havd taken the peninsula and Nova Kakhova along with the dam. They are reportedly across most of the dneiper

 

[sparkie]

Threads from 2014 for anyone interested and with time on their hands :

Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?

I know that it is not as important as whether or not there should be one or two strikers up front or who is the World's Hardest Creature, but people are being shot dead by their own Government in Kiev so perhaps there should a thread about this?

www.northstandchat.com

The Ukraine/Russia Situation

This should have it's own thread. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/pyatt-us-to-provide-military-support-to-help-ukraine-defend-itself-but-crisis-can-be-solved-only-through-political-means-357929.html US to provide military support to help Ukraine Not sure if true.

www.northstandchat.com

 

[A1X]

Yikes.

 

[Solid at the back]

Huge escalation.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Huge escalation.

Or just incompetence on the part of the Russians. They have proven piss poor on most aspects of the war so far.

 

[sparkie]

That's a big game changer.

Fired from Belarus it seems ? Poland bound to respond.

I can see the launch systems being taken out as a minimum.

 

[atomised]

Or just incompetence on the part of the Russians. They have proven piss poor on most aspects of the war so far.

I'd like to think it's incompetence

 

[Igzilla]

I'd like to think it's incompetence

Irrespective of whether it's incompetence or not (it probably is), it gives NATO a huge window of opportunity to take further action, should they wish to do so. I'm sure Putin will be watching closely to see if NATO do respond (given that a NATO state has just been attacked, technically).

 

[sparkie]

I'd like to think it's incompetence

One of this lot responsible :

 

[sparkie]

Kasparov is right - it's a test. And Putin is watching the response.

 

[dazzer6666]

Pretty scary development, however it happened.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We can't know if it's deliberate or not, so what to do?

On the one hand ......

Even if entirely accidental it is an entirely predictable consequence of firing so many missiles indiscriminately, which justifies a proportionate military response.

On the other .....

Let's keep cool heads here. Is this worth an escalation over?

My view? It is worth escalating. Russia have provoked and provoked. Intent is not really the issue. The fact is they have attacked and killed people in a NATO country. I think a proportionate response is a NATO missile attack at a logistics depot in Russian territory.

 

[jcdenton08]

It’s all getting a bit eggy.

How long until WW3? And, crucially, what will China do?

 

[sparkie]

We can't know if it's deliberate or not, so what to do?

On the one hand ......

Even if entirely accidental it is an entirely predictable consequence of firing so many missiles indiscriminately, which justifies a proportionate military response.

On the other .....

Let's keep cool heads here. Is this worth an escalation over?

My view? It is worth escalating. Russia have provoked and provoked. Intent is not really the issue. The fact is they have attacked and killed people in a NATO country. I think a proportionate response is a NATO missile attack at a logistics depot in Russian territory.

I agree.

Doing nothing sends Putin the signal that we are weak. It won't be the last missile "accident".

A limited response destroying the base / airfield that fired the missile in Belarus would seem appropriate to me.

Let's see what the professionals decide. It'll have been wargamed though. Not much sleep for "sleepy Joe" tonight.

 

[A mex eyecan]

It’s all getting a bit eggy.

How long until WW3? And, crucially, what will China do?

China? probably making anything they see as saleable, good market now for home first aid kits, dodgy fall out suits etc. Yes i am joking’ish… but to be fair their moral compass seems about as sound as some knock off sales person loitering in the shadows, any opportunity to make a buck or million is fair game.. Just consider how many billion disposble face masks and test kits they have hawked all around the globe.

 

[jcdenton08]

China? probably making anything they see as saleable, good market now for home first aid kits, dodgy fall out suits etc. Yes i am joking’ish… but to be fair their moral compass seems about as sound as some knock off sales person loitering in the shadows, any opportunity to make a buck or million is fair game.. Just consider how many billion disposble face masks and test kits they have hawked all around the globe.

All this is true, but as *the* key Russian ally they are the game changer in all this.

 

[TomandJerry]

Gierszewski tweeted:

My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

 

[jcdenton08]

Gierszewski tweeted:

My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

That would be very, very convenient…

 

[GT49er]

I agree.

Doing nothing sends Putin the signal that we are weak. It won't be the last missile "accident".

A limited response destroying the base / airfield that fired the missile in Belarus would seem appropriate to me.

Let's see what the professionals decide. It'll have been wargamed though. Not much sleep for "sleepy Joe" tonight.

Yes, if they can accurately the missile launch site, then destroy it.

Similarly, after due and specific warning, Ukraine is now entitled to destroy Russian electricity supply installations on a one-for-one basis - with pre-warning that, say, one of six targets will be destroyed, so evacuate everyone from all of them, to avoid innocent casualties - seize the moral high-ground (not that they aren't on it already).