[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Easy 10]

Bring 'em back? Of course they won't! I can just hear the conversation between a couple of armed soldiers and a worried mother on her doorstsep.....

"Hello Mrs. xxxxxxov (or xxxxxev) - your son went to the Ukraine (he's dead as a door-nail, but we're not going to tell you that) and we're sorry to say he's believed to have defected to the fascists that are running Ukraine, that we are tryimg to rescue people from - you know, like you've seen on the tele. Well, we've come to enable you to expunge the shame from your family name - pay 5.000 rubles towards the 'special military operation' fund, or lose your house and everything else you own'.

'OK, well done - but we're taking your house and everything you own anyway. Good luck with finding your son'..........................................

I think we all know none of the families in Russia who have lost sons to the conscription would ever be gullible / stupid enough to buy the scenario you outline.

I'm talking about the reaction. Will the deaths of their sons be just meekly accepted ? Or when it starts happening, will there be a massive uprising ? We've already seen huge protests across the nation at this mobilisation. How much will that escalate when the resulting deaths begin ? I truly hope it kicks off such an almighty shitstorm on the streets that it effects some drastic change.

Ideally, I just wish someone would plant a 9mm slab of lead into Putins face. And I don't think I've ever wished death on anyone before. But there we are.

 

[sparkie]

It is one thing being called up to defend the country.

It is totally another to be dragged in to die in a suicidal vanity project because one man was butt hurt 30 years ago about the breakup of the USSR.

I absolutely understand why so many gave him the finger and left Russia.

 

[Eric the meek]

For connoisseurs of Russian state TV propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvai0_UAhVg&t=165s

If you're inclined, take the time to spot the intended messages. (e.g. mock the runaways; scapegoating; not my fault; a call for money to equip our boys; don't fall for western propaganda, fall for this propaganda instead).

 

[vegster]

Well whether they bring them back or not, when forced conscripted civilians who have been literally thrown into this mess end up as corpses alongside the military casualties waging this war, I would expect the domestic reaction in Russia to be visceral. Putin could end up with what amounts to a civil war within his own country against his own goons, as well as the one he is waging in Ukraine.

I think Putin will be able to ride this out no problem. The state security is so good and so ruthless that people will only make limited protests.
About the only hope is that sanctions cripple the country to such an extent that the State Security forces start to see their wages dry up, when this happens they will start throwing their uniforms away. I don't think that that many of them believe in Putin or his war but its currently better for them to be beating and arresting on a reasonable wage at home than be sent to the front themselves.

 

[Rugrat]

I think Putin will be able to ride this out no problem. The state security is so good and so ruthless that people will only make limited protests.
About the only hope is that sanctions cripple the country to such an extent that the State Security forces start to see their wages dry up, when this happens they will start throwing their uniforms away. I don't think that that many of them believe in Putin or his war but its currently better for them to be beating and arresting on a reasonable wage at home than be sent to the front themselves.

Sadly I agree. Nor do I see how sanctions can really work all the time he is able to sell his gas and oil to China and India and presumably buy the stuff he needs from (or via) them

 

[Insel affe]

I think Putin will be able to ride this out no problem. The state security is so good and so ruthless that people will only make limited protests.
About the only hope is that sanctions cripple the country to such an extent that the State Security forces start to see their wages dry up, when this happens they will start throwing their uniforms away. I don't think that that many of them believe in Putin or his war but its currently better for them to be beating and arresting on a reasonable wage at home than be sent to the front themselves.

I was thinking about this and sadly think your right, he could have even played a blinder to be honest.
He annexed the Crimea in 2014 without a hardly a blink of an eye or any serious repercussions, he tested western resolve and found no resistance. He has meddled in world affairs allegedly interfering in the American elections and pro RussianTrump was elected in 2016, what a year also Brexit occurred, allegations abound about contributions to funds supporting the leave campaign. This without doubt has weakened the Europe and Britain as we are now finding.

His dream of a reunification of the kievan rus is possible, he started to amass his troops in February 2021, no one took much notice other than the Ukraine, he would have invaded earlier had it not been for Covid and a bitter winter, he eventually invaded in February 2022.

Ok the war is not exactly going to plan, but this man will have thought out all eventualities, and I think we are now seeing the attacks on infrastructure such as the Nord pipelines. This is all part of a plan to split the west hopefully in his thinking through a bitter winter, countries are weak, going through financial crises, and sadly will be more concerned with their own bank balances and well being, because that is human nature.

He is not concerned by a few thousand people protesting in a country of 144 million, no matter how excited the western press get excited by it.
It is nothing, it will not stop him, I worry about his next plan, and our resolve as we all try and come to terms with an incompetent government. This also has implications for our relationship with America, and China.

Very worrying times for everyone in Europe, Russia may have outdated machines and tanks, but they are not going to laydown or backdown.

 

[Eric the meek]

'Nord Stream: Sweden finds new leak in Russian gas pipeline'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63071552

Does this herald a new phase of the war? State backed eco-vandalism?

It defies logic, unless you take the view that it's intended as a warning, as in 'Look what we are capable of'.
Note that Sweden (next door to the leaks) has applied to join Nato.

 

[Insel affe]

Russia to formally annex four more areas of Ukraine on Friday.

A new phase of the war has begun, with destructing and sabotage included.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63072113

The Russian public will be informed that any attack on these areas is an attack on Russia and this will mobilise thousands of patriots, despite the news of a few thousand protestors, as I have said above in a post, there are 144 million Russians, and unfortunately a good percentage are indoctrinated due to propaganda....

Russia is sabotaging infrastructure and hoping for economic collapse across Europe.

worrying times ahead folks, it is going to be a long cold winter in the Ukraine and the rest of Europe.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Unfortunately, it does seem that perhaps Russia will keep these areas, as it did Crimea. Just this time Ukraine will join Nato and huge amounts of Nato forces will have to sit on the borders. Aswell as the borders of (joining) Sweden and Finland. Putin will claim victory even though he has messed up badly. Hope it doesn't work out this way though of course.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Unfortunately, it does seem that perhaps Russia will keep these areas, as it did Crimea. Just this time Ukraine will join Nato and huge amounts of Nato forces will have to sit on the borders. Aswell as the borders of (joining) Sweden and Finland. Putin will claim victory even though he has messed up badly. Hope it doesn't work out this way though of course.

Today's announcement will do nothing to deter Ukraine from attempting to regain the territory as it regained swathes in the east of the country recently.

It will be tough, but they've achieved remarkable things before.

 

[Icy Gull]

Today's announcement will do nothing to deter Ukraine from attempting to regain the territory as it regained swathes in the east of the country recently.

It will be tough, but they've achieved remarkable things before.

We should all be grateful that a country is eventually standing up to these ***** and showing them up for the bullying neanderthals they are. They have got away with it for too long.

Ukranians obviously have balls of steel

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We should all be grateful that a country is eventually standing up to these ***** and showing them up for the bullying neanderthals they are. They have got away with it for too long.

Grateful and humbled by their astonishing bravery and resourcefulness.

If there is some sort of positive to take from this humanitarian nightmare, it's that the Kremlin have shown the world who they are once more, and this time the world noticed.

 

[Icy Gull]

Grateful and humbled by their astonishing bravery and resourcefulness.

If there is some sort of positive to take from this humanitarian nightmare, it's that the Kremlin have shown the world who they are once more, and this time the world noticed.

In fairness the Afghans, whatever you think of them, also stood up to them and sent them packing in the end. As they have to everybody that has ever invaded them for better or worse.

 

[Insel affe]

Grateful and humbled by their astonishing bravery and resourcefulness.

If there is some sort of positive to take from this humanitarian nightmare, it's that the Kremlin have shown the world who they are once more, and this time the world noticed.

and what has the world done precisely to deter him annexing areas of a free country ?
China, India look away and...
Oh, we the west have sent weapons and logistics, but how has this stopped Putin, nope nothing, he is even undertaking sabotage, without reprisals or punishment that will hurt him, he is laughing his feckin socks off at the west, I am afraid.

If I was Ukrainian, I would be looking around, throwing my arms up in the air and ask, when just when are you going to stop this man, and then put my tin hat on and get back on with it, wondering all the time if I and the Ukraine are expendable to the west.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

and what has the world done precisely to deter him annexing areas of a free country ?
China, India look away and...
Oh, we the west have sent weapons and logistics, but how has this stopped Putin, nope nothing, he is even undertaking sabotage, without reprisals or punishment that will hurt him, he is laughing his feckin socks off at the west, I am afraid.

If I was Ukrainian, I would be looking around, throwing my arms up in the air and ask, when just when are you going to stop this man, and then put my tin hat on and get back on with it, wondering all the time if I and the Ukraine are expendable to the west.

I agree with you and I would support our direct military involvement, though I understand why the majority don't agree with my opinion.

 

[raymondo]

and what has the world done precisely to deter him annexing areas of a free country ?
China, India look away and...
Oh, we the west have sent weapons and logistics, but how has this stopped Putin, nope nothing, he is even undertaking sabotage, without reprisals or punishment that will hurt him, he is laughing his feckin socks off at the west, I am afraid.

If I was Ukrainian, I would be looking around, throwing my arms up in the air and ask, when just when are you going to stop this man, and then put my tin hat on and get back on with it, wondering all the time if I and the Ukraine are expendable to the west.

As one of the senior Ukrainians said...please give us enough weapons to WIN... rather than just enough to lose slowly.

 

[Mtoto]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/endgame-for-putin/id1462649946?i=1000580914173

Thought this podcast was fascinating, Russian interviewee suggests we should already be trying to look beyond Putin to how Russia can be repaired once he's gone.

 

[Jesus Gul]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/endgame-for-putin/id1462649946?i=1000580914173

Thought this podcast was fascinating, Russian interviewee suggests we should already be trying to look beyond Putin to how Russia can be repaired once he's gone.

Abrahmovic for President (or Navalny or Tinkoff or any other half decent Russian)

 

[raymondo]

I think Putin will be able to ride this out no problem. The state security is so good and so ruthless that people will only make limited protests.
About the only hope is that sanctions cripple the country to such an extent that the State Security forces start to see their wages dry up, when this happens they will start throwing their uniforms away. I don't think that that many of them believe in Putin or his war but its currently better for them to be beating and arresting on a reasonable wage at home than be sent to the front themselves.

I think you are right. Hopefully the state security will also start to lose some of their kids and colleagues to the mobilisation.

 

[peterward]

I think we all know none of the families in Russia who have lost sons to the conscription would ever be gullible / stupid enough to buy the scenario you outline.

I'm talking about the reaction. Will the deaths of their sons be just meekly accepted ? Or when it starts happening, will there be a massive uprising ? We've already seen huge protests across the nation at this mobilisation. How much will that escalate when the resulting deaths begin ? I truly hope it kicks off such an almighty shitstorm on the streets that it effects some drastic change.

Ideally, I just wish someone would plant a 9mm slab of lead into Putins face. And I don't think I've ever wished death on anyone before. But there we are.

Theres aroud 59k Russian killed, 2-3x that amount wounded and yet the official total the kremlin last gave out was under 2k dead..... There was though a report from inside Russia a month or so ago that confimed over 50k dead. It was the amount of money the government had handed to deceased relatives of war and that fixed amount total was divisible by over 50k..

The offical line though is still virtually none killed, many are claimed to be missing in action (when obvs theyre dead) and the Russians are reportedly running a minimum of 16 mobile crematoria to burn the evidence (which doesnt fit the propaganda narrative).



Putin will just keep chucking more and more civillians into the meat grinder to try and save his own skin and at same time lie about it and try and repress any dissent.

Thats the plan.