[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[herecomesaregular]

I don't thank anybody who's involved in it, and it detracts from the original point of this thread.

You're right and I shouldn't have posted that. I'd delete it but it shows in replies still anyway. Should have paused before posting. No offense to the Clamp meant.

 

[cjd]

Thank goodness " birth of a orange" wasn't around the second World War. He has been shitting his pants on here since day 1.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I apologised for that post. I still hold that view but I acknowledged it was not appropriate to post. Please accept that in the spirit it was meant. Your above post is below your usually very high standard.

Do you know what I actually wish for? Not one more life to be lost on either side except Putin and his facilitators of war. I wish for everyone else to put down their guns and go home to their loved ones without one more drop of blood being spilled.

Let's make that an end to the gruesome posts and I'll end by repeating that I'm sorry for my post.

Just seen this, agree wholeheartedly.

 

[birthofanorange]

Thank goodness " birth of a orange" wasn't around the second World War. He has been shitting his pants on here since day 1.

Oh dear, another one.

 

[essbee1]

I would imagine they're as fecked up as US soldiers were being dumped into Vietnam, only with a complete psycho like Putin pulling their strings.
I'm in no way saying that there won't be lots of bloodthirsty freaks among them, but I can't get excited by death....however justified it may seem.

Well nor do we. But that is ONLY way that Russia will see the light.

 

[herecomesaregular]

And so....the lurch to savagery takes just minutes. Funny old lot, humans

My take? In the war against the greater bad, lives will be lost.

Anyone joining the military and expecting that no mortal peril is on the agenda is a fool.

In the defence of a nation against tyrrany, you can't **** about.

The day for shedding a tear for Russian military dead is a long way off.

Agree, with some misgivings that many join the military to get out of poverty when other choices are severely limited. I don't have that sort of economic pressure so I still have some sympathy.

 

[essbee1]

Agree, with some misgivings that many join the military to get out of poverty when other choices are severely limited. I don't have that sort of economic pressure so I still have some sympathy.

Well, sadly, that is the risk they took when they signed up.

 

[birthofanorange]

Well, sadly, that is the risk they took when they signed up.

Do you not think that their choices were rather more limited in life than ours? It's easy to say that when (by comparison) we live a life of relative freedom to do pretty much what the hell we like?

 

[GT49er]

And so....the lurch to savagery takes just minutes. Funny old lot, humans

My take? In the war against the greater bad, lives will be lost.

1). Yes, of course. It's war - that means people killing other people. Hopefully 'we' kill nore than 'them'.

Anyone joining the military and expecting that no mortal peril is on the agenda is a fool.

2). Yes, I'm sure people that join the military because the allternative is being shot or spending 15 years in a labour camp in Siberia realise this all too well. As do young men who believe they are joining up to protect their country from aggressors.

In the defence of a nation against tyrrany, you can't **** about.

3). Not if you've got a gram of belief in your country's freedom, and courage, no you certainly can't!

The day for shedding a tear for Russian military dead is a long way off.

See above:

"And so....the lurch to savagery takes just minutes."

Exactly - when shedding a tear is a long way off.......................... it does.....

 

[Baldseagull]

One thing to bear in mind, a good number of Russians that have been captured, have since rejoined the fight on the Ukrainian side. Who knows how many of the dead would have also done so, if they had the chance. I applaud the sinking of the ship, and the reduction of Russian servicemen, but the loss of young mens lives is still sad.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Seeing reports on Twitter that the Moskva lost 452 men. Also reports saying it had two nuclear warheads on board.

Yes, 44 rescued by a Turkish vessel and 14 others were flown by the Russians to Sevastopol. That leaves the 452 unaccounted for at present, but some may also have been evacuated prior to sinking - no evidence either way on that though.

 

[Eeyore]

Seeing reports on Twitter that the Moskva lost 452 men. Also reports saying it had two nuclear warheads on board.

I always read Twitter. It's the only reliable source out there.

Anyway, CNN anchor.

[Tweet]1514979332971716619[/tweet]

 

[Icy Gull]

Given the rhetoric coming from the Kremlin it seems the West is going to have to call Moscow’s bluff or back off with the supply of weapons. This is only going one way isn’t it unless Russia backs down, which seems highly unlikely.

 

[Eric the meek]

Given the rhetoric coming from the Kremlin it seems the West is going to have to call Moscow’s bluff or back off with the supply of weapons. This is only going one way isn’t it unless Russia backs down, which seems highly unlikely.

It looks like we have already decided to call Moscow's bluff.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61124291

'Russia warns West of 'unpredictable consequences'' at 01:23

'The two-page diplomatic note – forwarded to the US State Department by the Russian embassy in Washington - warns that US and Nato weapons shipments are "adding fuel" to the conflict in Ukraine, and could lead to what Russian diplomats refer to as "unpredictable consequences".

It was sent on Tuesday, just as word of a new US military aid package for Ukraine had started to leak out. Only hours later President Biden approved the shipment of $800m of military assistance - including, for the first time, long range artillery weapons such as howitzers – with the aim of matching Russia’s military capability in Ukraine.

A senior US administration official was quoted as saying the warning could be seen as a concession by Russia that US and Nato military assistance to Ukraine was proving effective.

 

[jakarta]

Given how well this is all going for Russia you do have to wonder if they have an equivalent of the Tory 1922 Committee (although with 9mm Glocks rather than Grey Suits) who might be calling on Vlad the Lad in the near future?

 

[golddene]

I’m not criticising anyone on here, neither those for or against. Those who are seemingly glorifying in the military losses for the aggressor here, neither those who are, like myself, lamenting in this pointless waste of human life and totally unnecessary aggression. Which can only be blamed upon the greed and expansionism of Putin and his Government. With all the warnings we had, the previous invasions of Ukraine etc, the very well publicised build up of troops etc at the borders. Our elected leaders maybe could and certainly should have done more to prevent this outcome, but it seems to me this is just escalating to a full on confrontation of East vs West with possible Armageddon the only likely outcome. We, the human race, it seems will never be happy until we destroy our planet and each other. Scary times ahead for us all I’m afraid, with nothing seemingly anyone can do to prevent it.
My first post on this thoroughly depressing subject.

 

[Eric the meek]

I’m not criticising anyone on here, neither those for or against. Those who are seemingly glorifying in the military losses for the aggressor here, neither those who are, like myself, lamenting in this pointless waste of human life and totally unnecessary aggression. Which can only be blamed upon the greed and expansionism of Putin and his Government. With all the warnings we had, the previous invasions of Ukraine etc, the very well publicised build up of troops etc at the borders. Our elected leaders maybe could and certainly should have done more to prevent this outcome, but it seems to me this is just escalating to a full on confrontation of East vs West with possible Armageddon the only likely outcome. We, the human race, it seems will never be happy until we destroy our planet and each other. Scary times ahead for us all I’m afraid, with nothing seemingly anyone can do to prevent it.
My first post on this thoroughly depressing subject.

Admiral Sir Tony Radakin, Chief of the Defence Staff, said in an interview that we had intelligence for several months that Putin's plan was to invade.

What would you have done to prevent the invasion, while not escalating to a full confrontation?

 

[golddene]

Admiral Sir Tony Radakin, Chief of the Defence Staff, said in an interview that we had intelligence for several months that Putin's plan was to invade.

What would you have done to prevent the invasion, while not escalating to a full confrontation?

Maybe remove the doubt of expansionism of NATO which may have calmed Russian aggression! Who knows, I don’t have the answers, just feel more could have been done to try to prevent this insecurity we are all facing today.

 

[GT49er]

I’m not criticising anyone on here, neither those for or against. Those who are seemingly glorifying in the military losses for the aggressor here, neither those who are, like myself, lamenting in this pointless waste of human life and totally unnecessary aggression. Which can only be blamed upon the greed and expansionism of Putin and his Government. With all the warnings we had, the previous invasions of Ukraine etc, the very well publicised build up of troops etc at the borders. Our elected leaders maybe could and certainly should have done more to prevent this outcome, but it seems to me this is just escalating to a full on confrontation of East vs West with possible Armageddon the only likely outcome. We, the human race, it seems will never be happy until we destroy our planet and each other. Scary times ahead for us all I’m afraid, with nothing seemingly anyone can do to prevent it.

Easy to say - but what exactly?

 

[Eric the meek]

Maybe remove the doubt of expansionism of NATO which may have calmed Russian aggression! Who knows, I don’t have the answers, just feel more could have been done to try to prevent this insecurity we are all facing today.

I detect an element of confusion.

Just to clarify, Nato is a defensive alliance, member nations freely choosing to be in it, to defend against Russian aggression.
If Russia were not aggressive, Nato would have no reason to exist.

As a direct result of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Finland and probably Sweden will want to join, thus furthering Nato's 'expansion' as you put it.

How do we remove the doubt of Nato 'expansionism' when, from Putin's perspective, Nato represents a genuine threat to Russia's security?
Are you suggesting Finland, Sweden and other concerned nations should not join Nato?