[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

'Russian spy chief warns country's fate to be decided in coming days'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60746557 at 10:11.

'The head of Russia's foreign intelligence agency has said the country's fate will be decided in the coming days.

Sergei Naryshkin, who heads up the SVR, told a panel event in Moscow that Russia "is now experiencing a truly historic moment".
The fate of Russia is being decided, its future place in the world," Naryshkin said.

The spy chief's speech focused on the importance of sovereignty and he told delegates "sovereignty is a guarantee of the well-being and dignity of our citizens, this is the future of our children".
"In such matters, Russia has never retreated and will not retreat, because otherwise it will cease to be Russia".

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine Naryshkin was dressed down by President Vladimir Putin on state TV during a heavily choreographed national security meeting. Putin challenged the one-time KGB officer, who seemed to fluff his lines when invited to voice support for the recognition of separatist regions in Ukraine.'


I suspect Russia's fate was decided the moment it invaded Ukraine.

 

[sydney]

'Russian spy chief warns country's fate to be decided in coming days'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60746557 at 10:11.

'The head of Russia's foreign intelligence agency has said the country's fate will be decided in the coming days.

Sergei Naryshkin, who heads up the SVR, told a panel event in Moscow that Russia "is now experiencing a truly historic moment".
The fate of Russia is being decided, its future place in the world," Naryshkin said.

The spy chief's speech focused on the importance of sovereignty and he told delegates "sovereignty is a guarantee of the well-being and dignity of our citizens, this is the future of our children".
"In such matters, Russia has never retreated and will not retreat, because otherwise it will cease to be Russia".

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine Naryshkin was dressed down by President Vladimir Putin on state TV during a heavily choreographed national security meeting. Putin challenged the one-time KGB officer, who seemed to fluff his lines when invited to voice support for the recognition of separatist regions in Ukraine.'


I suspect Russia's fate was decided the moment it invaded Ukraine.

Russia's fate hangs on the whimsy of a bloody lunatic , hopefully one of his own puts a bullet in him in the near future.

 

[Commander]

Am I the only person to notice this from the peace talks, or has it already gone viral?



All kitted out for Russia at Home.

 

[birthofanorange]

So just to be clear, anyone who thinks a different outcome is also possible is "utterly deluded". We're not talking degrees of probability, you've worked it out, presumably via some sort of precognitive vision you've had.

All i'd say mate is the Cheltenham festival is on this weekend, so if you're powers of clairvoyance are that strong, i'd be putting them to use there.

How would you see WW3 panning out? Do you think it would only involve conventional weapons? Perhaps the odd one or two nukes? If it kicks off, it will escalate to a full-on nuclear catastrophe, and I really can't see how it could end as anything other than a toxic wasteland.

Oh, and I don't bet on the gee-gees.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

How would you see WW3 panning out? Do you think it would only involve conventional weapons? Perhaps the odd one or two nukes? If it kicks off, it will escalate to a full-on nuclear catastrophe, and I really can't see how it could end as anything other than a toxic wasteland.

Oh, and I don't bet on the gee-gees.

I don't know. You may very well be right. I suppose I took issue with you stating your opinion, that nuclear annihilation in the event of a wider conflict would be inevitable, as fact and suggesting anyone who doesn't agree was deluded. I just don't think that's a helpful way of having this conversation.

 

[birthofanorange]

I don't know. You may very well be right. I suppose I took issue with you stating your opinion, that nuclear annihilation in the event of a wider conflict would be inevitable, as fact and suggesting anyone who doesn't agree was deluded. I just don't think that's a helpful way of having this conversation.

Fair point, but I still don't see how (if it escalated to actual WW3, which had been mentioned) it would end in any other way than nuclear.

Let's all just hope we never get to find out.

 

[British Bulldog]

Fair point, but I still don't see how (if it escalated to actual WW3, which had been mentioned) it would end in any other way than nuclear.

Let's all just hope we never get to find out.

The nuclear threat stops world war 3 happening.

 

[Eric the meek]

'Russia's state TV hit by stream of resignations'. - BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60763494

Looks like there are quite a lot.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The nuclear threat stops world war 3 happening.

Sorry to derail, but again this is degrees of probability and degrees of risk. Why make predictions on matters of such huge importance with such false certainty?

 

[Insel affe]

Not sure if posted before, this footage shot by a German drone, shows Russian troops shooting a man as he gets out of his car.
The pictures from March 7 show Russian soldiers dragging the body of the man away from his car and into a ditch. A woman and a child were also traveling with him. They are later led by soldiers into the nearby forest. What happens to them then, the pictures do not show.

https://youtu.be/v-GnMYlj7kw

 

[British Bulldog]

Sorry to derail, but again this is degrees of probability and degrees of risk. Why make predictions on matters of such huge importance with such false certainty?

So far it has been proved right, even with Russia getting all nuclear threatening at the start are now back tracking and talking peace.

 

[Triggaaar]

'Russian spy chief warns country's fate to be decided in coming days'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60746557 at 10:11.

'The head of Russia's foreign intelligence agency has said the country's fate will be decided in the coming days.

Sergei Naryshkin, who heads up the SVR, told a panel event in Moscow that Russia "is now experiencing a truly historic moment".
The fate of Russia is being decided, its future place in the world," Naryshkin said.

The spy chief's speech focused on the importance of sovereignty and he told delegates "sovereignty is a guarantee of the well-being and dignity of our citizens, this is the future of our children".
"In such matters, Russia has never retreated and will not retreat, because otherwise it will cease to be Russia".

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine Naryshkin was dressed down by President Vladimir Putin on state TV during a heavily choreographed national security meeting. Putin challenged the one-time KGB officer, who seemed to fluff his lines when invited to voice support for the recognition of separatist regions in Ukraine.'

I don't understand what that piece is saying exactly?

Is it saying 'Russia will not retreat, Russia will win and be a world superpower', or what?

 

[birthofanorange]

So far it has been proved right, even with Russia getting all nuclear threatening at the start are now back tracking and talking peace.

Because NATO has stayed out of it....so far.

 

[Eric the meek]

I don't understand what that piece is saying exactly?

Is it saying 'Russia will not retreat, Russia will win and be a world superpower', or what?

I couldn't have put it any better. I didn't understand it either and was hoping for someone to clarify it for me!

Why make a speech like that, if it just confuses everyone? Unless that was the real purpose?

 

[MJsGhost]

'Russia's state TV hit by stream of resignations'. - BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60763494

Looks like there are quite a lot.

I have to admit to a childish snigger when I read the article.

I bet he got RIBBED at school for that

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

So far it has been proved right, even with Russia getting all nuclear threatening at the start are now back tracking and talking peace.

So far WWIII hasn't started you're right. And it doesn't matter what Russian say. They said they weren't going to invade at all (and about 3 billion other total lies which have been well documented)

But my point is the certainty with which predictions are being thrown around on this thread is not helping.

Either that NATO and Russia definitely won't have an escalation because of the nuclear deterrent, or if we do have one we're all certain to fry. Both arguments might be true, but might not. If we're going to have a debate about the appropriate levels of NATO involvement in this it should done in a more calm headed way

 

[Commander]

Sorry to derail, but again this is degrees of probability and degrees of risk. Why make predictions on matters of such huge importance with such false certainty?

Because if he's wrong, it won't matter for very long?

 

[Iovan The Sweeper]

I couldn't have put it any better. I didn't understand it either and was hoping for someone to clarify it for me!

Why make a speech like that, if it just confuses everyone? Unless that was the real purpose?

Yes I thought exactly the same thing - was it deliberately ambiguous to leave all their options open?

Had a quick look at other news sites, and it seems to echo comments from Putin today about sovereignty:

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-says-western-attempt-global-dominance-will-fail-2022-03-16/

Putin has consistently described the democratically elected leaders of Ukraine as neo-Nazis bent on committing genocide against Russian-speakers in the east of the country - a line that the West denounces as baseless war propaganda.

He said Western countries wanted to turn Russia into a “weak dependent country; violate its territorial integrity; to dismember Russia in a way that suits them”.

If the West thought that Russia would break down or back down, “they don’t know our history or our people”, Putin said on the 21st day of the war.

“Behind the hypocritical talk and today’s actions of the so-called collective West are hostile geopolitical goals,” he added. “They just don’t want a strong and sovereign Russia.”

He said Russia was ready to discuss Ukraine’s neutral status in talks:

The question of principle for our country and its future, the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation, and its ‘denazification’ - we were ready and we are ready to discuss as part of negotiations.

 

[British Bulldog]

Because NATO has stayed out of it....so far.

1914-1918 world war 1, 1939-1945 world war 2. 1945 2 big bombs dropped on Japan. 1945-2022 many conflicts that could have kicked off world war 3 or nuclear war but it hasn't happened.

 

[birthofanorange]

1914-1918 world war 1, 1939-1945 world war 2. 1945 2 big bombs dropped on Japan. 1945-2022 many conflicts that could have kicked off world war 3 or nuclear war but it hasn't happened.

Different times, and just because it hasn't (yet) doesn't mean it won't.