[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Thunder Bolt]

Theres over 1200 deaths officially in Mariupol, mass graves being dug.

All my Mrs family are from whats called the East bank, including Mother in laws house. Its the worst part of the city in reports and has been raised to ground by shelling. 8 relatives, and friends in other parts of city, not heard from anyone since 28 February.

Execting the worse now.

I feel for you and your family. It must be excruciating not knowing.

 

[pb21]

I think it's in my nature to play Devils Advocate. I don't think it's as simple as Putin is evil or even mad. Although he is certainly brutal and seemingly hell bent on his mission.

You could be right he may not be mad or evil, but that still doesn't answer why he is doing it, or why he is doing it now.

It's always good to at least play devil's advocate and consider differing opinions/stances it means you can be more confident it what you think, or conversely the opposite! In this case, and on that reasoned basis, i'm still very much of the opinions as stated above.

 

[Gabbafella]

If the Ukrainian's have given an accurate account of casualties, then there is no way that hospital was in use given how devastating the destruction is.

Taken from BBC news. There are links on the website for different info supporting the story too.

The Russian Embassy in London denied that forces were targeting civilians by bombing a maternity hospital in Mariupol. But officials offered no proof to back up their claims, and the BBC's disinformation team has found evidence that contradicts the allegations.

In tweets which were later removed by Twitter, the embassy said the hospital wasn’t operational, had been taken over by the far-right Ukrainian Azov battalion, and that a woman pictured at the scene was faking being involved.

The embassy claimed the hospital had been "long non-operational". But a week-old post on the hospital’s Facebook page asked for fuel to keep operations going.

Reports from Mariupol last week – from the Associated Press news agency and Sky News – note that the hospital was taking in bombing victims, and that the maternity ward had been moved to the basement.

The embassy also alleged that a beauty blogger was used to fake photos of a pregnant woman from the scene. But the blogger in question, who lives in the city, is heavily pregnant in Instagram posts dating from last month.

The confusing claims from the embassy, a day after the bombing, may be a sign that Russian information efforts are struggling under the strain of war. On Twitter, the allegations found little traction and were roundly criticised.

 

[beorhthelm]

You could be right he may not be mad or evil, but that still doesn't answer why he is doing it, or why he is doing it now.

i'd venture the power, history and stated purpose to bring together the slav people and perception of security is why. odd really, he says why and we look for ulterior motives when the reasoning is sound (accepting of course there was no actual threat).
the now is stranger. may be simply calculated the west was weak, an old and slow US president, a hatstand UK PM, Merkle leaving office might have been the opportunity. upsurge in oil price and inflation might have factored to. there's doesnt seem to be any particular trigger or benefit of this time.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I wonder how long Russia can persist with this war?

Take for example, the beautiful city of Lviv. Almost on the western border of Poland, this city must be stuffed to the brim with western weaponry and mercenaries. Surely the Russians would never be able to take this if they are struggling with cities on their own border?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

You come across as a bit hot headed and intolerant, relax, I won't make you watch him.

I’m intolerant but Tucker Carlson isn’t ….. [emoji2357]The point is that you actually quoted him … which is quite frankly shocking.


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[Eric the meek]

As well as the atrocities, something else I find hard to fathom, is what Russia aim to get out of the endless barrage of lies and disinformation they emit on a daily basis.
Obviously, truth gets distorted in war, but they take it to a whole new level. If I tried to list them all, I'd be here all night.

It seems that they don't care about the consequences of lying to the whole world, and actually take enjoyment from it.
In doing so, they don't seem to realise, or care, that they are poisoning the well of goodwill and trust. The Kremlin are so used to getting their own way with bully-boy strong-arm tactics, that perhaps they don't foresee a time when only trust, truth, diplomacy and compromise will get them what they want.

The world no longer trusts Russia, and is turning its back on it.

We are a connected world. Russia is in for a huge reality check.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

China are not neutral like they pretend, theyre fully onboard with kremlin propaganda and are parroting the Kremlins lies.

Chinese boycotts and sanctions?

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2022/03/10/china-push-russian-war-disinformation-culver-dnt-ac360-vpx.cnn

There is a chance that this is all part of a bigger plan. A plan we don't realise yet.

I sort of almost expect Taiwan to be attacked after March 20th ( 1 week after the end of the paralympics which is the end of the period of no war that China asked the world for ).

That might be a conspiracy too far. It is just something which crossed my mind. No evidence.


It could also be that any plan like that by China has already been abandoned due to the level of sanctions on Russia putting China off.

 

[Motogull]

Earlier I posted what I thought was an interesting piece by Carlson.

I think too many have been polite about him. He is king of the Bugle*****. An absolute shit gibbon.

 

[pb21]

i'd venture the power, history and stated purpose to bring together the slav people and perception of security is why. odd really, he says why and we look for ulterior motives when the reasoning is sound (accepting of course there was no actual threat).
the now is stranger. may be simply calculated the west was weak, an old and slow US president, a hatstand UK PM, Merkle leaving office might have been the opportunity. upsurge in oil price and inflation might have factored to. there's doesnt seem to be any particular trigger or benefit of this time.

On the timing I think this has been in the pipeline for years, he has been lining up the cards as much as possible IMO. I wonder if the pandemic affected anything, that effectively comes to an end and a couple of months later he's invaded.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

It is obvious I think that the only reason the humanitarian corridor from Sumy worked - when most of the others are shelled by Putin - is that the Indian Government put pressure on to get the 600 Indian students trapped there out. Now those students have left I can't see that corridor remaining viable.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Theres over 1200 deaths officially in Mariupol, mass graves being dug.

All my Mrs family are from whats called the East bank, including Mother in laws house. Its the worst part of the city in reports and has been raised to ground by shelling. 8 relatives, and friends in other parts of city, not heard from anyone since 28 February.

Execting the worse now.

Well sometimes things work out better than we expect, we can but hope. Thanks for sharing this with us on NSC, it makes a terrible situation more real for us here. We are all rooting for you and your family.

 

[Razzoo]

I’m intolerant but Tucker Carlson isn’t ….. [emoji2357]The point is that you actually quoted him … which is quite frankly shocking.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh dear, I am sure you'll cope

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Theres over 1200 deaths officially in Mariupol, mass graves being dug.

All my Mrs family are from whats called the East bank, including Mother in laws house. Its the worst part of the city in reports and has been raised to ground by shelling. 8 relatives, and friends in other parts of city, not heard from anyone since 28 February.

Execting the worse now.

That is truly terrible. I hope that you get good news no matter how hopeless things may seem today.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Oh dear, I am sure you'll cope

All i'd say mate is that you're quoting a person widely recognised as a purveyor of disinformation on a thread where at least two people are directly affected with their family involved and all the others are trying to navigate a highly emotionally charged story.

Nobody is saying you can't present a different view, but the smart messages like the one above make you look, (and this is an extremely generous interpretation) that you've misread the room

 

[vegster]

Theres over 1200 deaths officially in Mariupol, mass graves being dug.

All my Mrs family are from whats called the East bank, including Mother in laws house. Its the worst part of the city in reports and has been raised to ground by shelling. 8 relatives, and friends in other parts of city, not heard from anyone since 28 February.

Execting the worse now.

So so sorry, It is a nightmare. I pray that due to the shelling and confusion that its not as bad as you fear, no one may know for weeks though .

 

[The Clamp]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VEuzW1BXZXQ

 

[Eric the meek]

Oh dear, I am sure you'll cope

Now that you've been on this thread for a while now, and have witnessed how this war is delivering a conveyor belt of trauma for several people, who have family and friends in Ukraine, are you able to display just a - little - empathy for them?

Can you even begin to understand, that in this extreme war situation of life and death, your persona of being the 'devil's advocate' is entirely inappropriate?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The head of the Ukrainian Anti-Curruption Agency trolled the Russian defence minister with this letter thanking him for all the embezzlement which had led to the Russian army being under-provisioned:

[tweEt]1501991946851655684[/twEet]

 

[Razzoo]

Now that you've been on this thread for a while now, and have witnessed how this war is delivering a conveyor belt of trauma for several people, who have family and friends in Ukraine, are you able to display just a - little - empathy for them?

Can you even begin to understand, that in this extreme war situation of life and death, your persona of being the 'devil's advocate' is entirely inappropriate?

Ok point taken, I am coming across as insensitive and that's not my aim. My only defence is that this is a forum, you know, a place to have discussions. I will bow out now.