Indeed. You’re basically asking them to take the red pill - it’s not straightforward.
Equally, as necessary as these sanctions are they’re not difficult to spin as the west trying to cripple Russia. They are a double edged sword in many ways.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
Indeed. You’re basically asking them to take the red pill - it’s not straightforward.
Equally, as necessary as these sanctions are they’re not difficult to spin as the west trying to cripple Russia. They are a double edged sword in many ways.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,482
Agreed. To be honest, we - are - trying to cripple Russia. That was the exact word that Ursula von der Leyen used. Cripple.
Indeed, I suppose the major variable in western and Russian narratives is who is the instigator and aggressor. Whilst never quite as simple as west = good guys and Russia = bad guys, we’re not the ones currently committing war crimes whilst killing innocent civilians in their thousands.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,482
I'm not saying anything new of course, but Putin doesn't see it like that. He genuinely sees his actions as justified, for Russian security, and western sanctions as unfriendly. I noted that today, he said 'no more sanctions', accompanied by a veiled threat. I see that as a good sign, in that the current sanctions are biting hard. I think he made a mistake there.
Tiger Barb
Active member
Whilst we have frozen Russian assets, why not go further and use the cash to fund the refugee crisis and buy arms for Ukraine? Would that not actually bite even harder?
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,732
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Freezing assets and selling seized assets are two very different things.
Tiger Barb
Active member
Fully appreciate that … but why should they get the money back after all the damage they have caused … just deduct ‘expenses’ …
herecomesaregular
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Shockingly ignorant (infront of camera, noted). I am still surprised how backward/North Koreanish Russia appears, no wonder Putin feels he can do what he likes and his people don't even seem to realise it. Frightening indeed. I think we just assume that the internet = much more freedom of information and discussion but it aint so.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,482
Zelensky was calling for reparations, paid for by Russia. Seems entirely reasonable to me. But I would go further. I would seek to:
1) Put Ukraine back in the position it was before the invasion began.
2) Compensate all other nations. Why should other nations foot the cost of commodity inflation in oil, gas, wheat, aluminium etc etc, because of Putin's reckless actions?
All, absolutely all of it, paid for by Russia from current reserves, and future earnings. For generations if necessary.
Tiger Barb
Active member
I agree … they should pay and the assets are there to foot the bill …
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
The hope is though, that with time and if it drags on, those ignorant people may be more inclined to consider a different version of events.
BN41Albion
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2017
- 6,913
I don't know - to me there's a clear distinction between older generations and younger in that clip and many others I've seen showing protests, etc. Those denying any wrongdoing didn't seem like the type who spent much time critically analysing state news on the Internet to me. I feel sorry for the younger generations of Russians - their futures have been ruined and the majority of them don't support putin and are much more aware of the outside world and lies Russians are fed on state tv through the Internet and social media
jakarta
Well-known member
Well that worked well with the Versailles Treaty after the First World War, the Germans put up with it, paid it all off and didn't rearm.
Oh...
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,482
Are you saying that Russia shouldn't pay for the consequences of its actions?
Let Russia get away with it?
Really?
Wasn't as bad as I expected tbh. Some were blinkered, some 'got it' and some were simply frightened to say what they really thought.
Exactly this
jakarta
Well-known member
No, but it can't happen without regime change, are you prepared for how that will pan out?
Really?
SweatyMexican
Well-known member
- Mar 31, 2013
- 4,160
Whatever the end, the only truly ‘good’ outcome is the removal of Putin and instalment of a ‘democratic’ society more aligned with the west.
Reparations…I agree…but Ukraine and Russia aren’t just nations, they’re people, and the Ukrainian and Russian people are gonna have very tough times ahead. Putin won’t care about reparations if he’s not in power, it’ll only affect the people, which is not who started or wanted this. Let’s bring them into the fold once Putin and his ilk are gone. We should all foot the bill for Ukraine as long as Russia comes to our side. That’s all I want to see come of this.
Reparations…I agree…but Ukraine and Russia aren’t just nations, they’re people, and the Ukrainian and Russian people are gonna have very tough times ahead. Putin won’t care about reparations if he’s not in power, it’ll only affect the people, which is not who started or wanted this. Let’s bring them into the fold once Putin and his ilk are gone. We should all foot the bill for Ukraine as long as Russia comes to our side. That’s all I want to see come of this.