[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Putin + elite do not want a ceasefire in any way, shape or form. They want and need permanent war.

1) Because they are (mostly) sick, imperialist mass-murderers.

2) Permanent war maintains their control over their population through fear and a perceived threat + common enemy (and keeps the oligarchs happy).

3) They want all of Ukraine (its resources and the remaining people who are left after they have butchered their way across the country).

4) They do not fear Nato on their borders (hello Finland) but they most definitely fear a democratic and free Ukraine next door who move closer to EU principles long-term and show the Russian people what freedom, affluence and quality of life really could be like (this is Putin's biggest fear IMHO).

5) Permanent war is the only thing that is really propping up their (failing) economy and hides the true rot of corruption every where else across Ruzzkie society.

6) The only ceasefire they are interested in is a pause with full sanctions relief to allow them to rebuild, re-arm and finish the job off they started in 2014/2022.


He/they will only stop when they are stopped through force and when they are defeated militarily, economically and ideologically.
How this is done in the nuclear age with social media and a traitorous moron in the White House is anyone's guess.

Agreed...and how are they going to be stopped through force/ and economically if Trump's administration is hell bent on getting an aluminum deal over the line, increasing diplomatic and trading ties with Russia,and possibly reducing sanctions.
At some point it seems Trump will have to clearly choose a side, or get out the way, admit he couldn't fix it, and then the war continues. In that scenario, Europe will HAVE to fill the gap in support.
No doubt on the way, Musk will muddy the waters with criticism of Ukraine and Europe, while lavishing praise on Russia...his next target for a Tesla factory and market.

 

[raymondo]

Has this been posted on here?

Another threat on Russia, but none acted on yet as far as I know.

 

[Mellotron]

Has this been posted on here?

"do things very bad" said the President of the United States of America.

f*** me he can barely speak English, he's such a f***ing stupid idiot of a cretin. How did it come to this?

 

[Eric the meek]

Another threat on Russia, but none acted on yet as far as I know.

Financial measures would hurt the ordinary Russian on the street, long before it hurts the political elite.

He might do better, (or maybe at the same time) to start to highlight the number of war dead, and the war crimes in all communications. Especially the 20,000 stolen Ukrainian children. Demand their repatriation. Find a way to publish it inside Russia. Turn the Russian people against the supreme commander-in-chief.

That's if he really wanted to. But he doesn't.

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

Agreed...and how are they going to be stopped through force/ and economically if Trump's administration is hell bent on getting an aluminum deal over the line, increasing diplomatic and trading ties with Russia,and possibly reducing sanctions.
At some point it seems Trump will have to clearly choose a side, or get out the way, admit he couldn't fix it, and then the war continues. In that scenario, Europe will HAVE to fill the gap in support.
No doubt on the way, Musk will muddy the waters with criticism of Ukraine and Europe, while lavishing praise on Russia...his next target for a Tesla factory and market.

Absolutely. He will have to choose a side. And nothing so far suggests that it will be USA/Europe/Ukraine's side. What on earth has Putin got on him?
Europe has already woken up to this fact in the past two incredible weeks – with rapid rearmament plans. Now to make it reality please.

 

[peterward]

 

[SouthSaxon]

He’s fudging. “Agrees” but will make demands.

 

[SouthSaxon]

First demand, cut off all aid.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

First demand, cut off all aid.

Now all eyes on Trump. If he supports Putin's demands, he's definitely working hand in glove with the sneaky Russian bastard.

 

[peterward]

He’s fudging. “Agrees” but will make demands.

Russia the agressors, will 100% use any ceasefire to continue recruiting Russians, and North Koreans and will keep pumping out weapons for their illegal invasion on foreign soil....

Yet the victim, defending their land against the fascist invaders, must stop defending themselves or preparing defences agains the next attack?

 

[SouthSaxon]

Now all eyes on Trump. If he supports Putin's demands, he's definitely working hand in glove with the sneaky Russian bastard.

Exactly. I’d expect Macron and Starmer to be on the phone to Trump tonight.

But it also seems like Putin is going to try to string this out, which may not work in his favour.

I still don’t buy the idea they are coordinating together, but Trump is predisposed to favour the strongest party.

 

[Insel affe]

Russia the agressors, will 100% use any ceasefire to continue recruiting Russians, and North Koreans and will keep pumping out weapons for their illegal invasion on foreign soil....

Yet the victim, defending their land against the fascist invaders, must stop defending themselves or preparing defences agains the next attack?

Sounds more than fair if your a big fat dumb American called Trump, otheriwse it is a feck off do you think we are stupid....

 

[peterward]

Sound fair if your a big fat dumb American called Trump, otheriwse it is a feck off do you think we are stupid....

If Zelensky wants to surrender Ukrainian sovereignty, the root cause of Putins invasion..... He doesn't need Trump to do it.

 

[beorhthelm]

He’s fudging. “Agrees” but will make demands.

i'd read it as a substantial shift from Russia, from reports that were effectively all war aims must be agreed for ceasefire to please dont re-arm.

at end of day ceasefire is not the end, but it halts the killing and damage, which everyone wants.

 

[peterward]

 

[peterward]

The 3 conditions presented to USA are

1. No NATO (Ukraine must remain defenseless or balance always in Russia favour)
2. No European peacekeepers allowed. (See above)
3. All territory Russia has seized and recognised as theirs must be legally recognised (political suicide and unacceptable for Zelensky, making mockery of those who died) and the biggest issue and probably the main reason Russia insists, is the high ground in North of Kherson region, North of the river that all Russians are on the south side of, is absolutely vital for another Russian push on towards Odessa and onto Transnistria/Moldova and to cut off Ukraine from the black sea.

 

[SouthSaxon]

i'd read it as a substantial shift from Russia, from reports that were effectively all war aims must be agreed for ceasefire to please dont re-arm.

at end of day ceasefire is not the end, but it halts the killing and damage, which everyone wants.

I think it’s more a rhetorical shift than anything meaningful. He knows that if he offers an outright no, Trump will turn. If he says yes outright, he angers influential folks at home.

A fudge was the only option he had.

Besides, demanding that your enemy not be allowed to re-arm but making no reciprocal commitment rather gives the game away does it not?

The ceasefire plan in Ukraine puts Putin in a bind: Anger Trump or anger Russian nationalists

Hawks denounce that the truce agreed upon by Washington and Kyiv will buy the enemy time. But Moscow does not want to lose touch with the US president and his new international order

english.elpais.com

 

[pb21]

He’s fudging. “Agrees” but will make demands.

Putin is going to eliminate himself?! Where do we sign?

 

[Scappa]

"Eradication of the conflict's roots"

Well off you f*** then, Vladdy-boy

 

[Sirnormangall]

First demand, cut off all aid.

No one in their right mind would agree those terms and Putin must know that. Time to take sides Donald.