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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



heathgate

Well-known member
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Apr 13, 2015
3,903
We ought to kick Russia’s butt but oh, we got rid of our army, navy, airforce. Still, we’re good for evacuating pets so that should keep the Russians quiet.
Perhaps partially because the unity of Nato brought an end to large scale global warfare as seen before... plenty of nations used this relative peace to reduce their overall military size in favour of a team effort across the alliance.

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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,065
Lets hope the West - for once - will make the decision to avoid sending hundreds of thousands of men to die in the battle for Western dominance and all those tasty natural resources in the East but I really wouldnt count on it. The propaganda machine is clearly winding people up, yet again. Impressive how it works every time. Anyone who knows a fair bit of history should also know that the whole "NATO and their members are all about peace and love" shit is ridiculous.

firstly, sending in troops has been ruled out by US, UK, France, NATO. secondly, Russia is the country with troop movements suggesting invasion, the afforemented nations have withdrawn advisors to avoid potential incidents. thirdly, Russia has already invaded and occupies regions of Ukraine.

but you want to play the Russian line that NATO is the agressor here? :facepalm:
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Give me one historical reference to NATO starting a conflict.

Under NATO flag? None. Under "we're a bunch of NATO nations bombing some country but we're definitely not calling ourselves NATO because that would not look good when we try to recruit more members" flag? Many.
 




Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,486
Wow. You are Liz Truss and I claim my £5. Don't apply for any jobs in the Diplomatic Corps.

Blimey, that didn't take long for an ad hominem argument to be wheeled out. So your argument is to shoot the messenger then.
Not very impressive is it?

Back to the crux of my point, and you show empathy for an unelected Russian tyrant and ignore his bullying of an independent, sovereign neighbouring state.

Since the Russian revolution over a hundred years ago (and before that as well), countless millions of Russians have been born, lived their lives in poverty and died, never having known freedom. With no prospect of free elections, they now face another phony war, and a further period of their nation being regarded by the rest of the world as a rogue, pariah state.
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
firstly, sending in troops has been ruled out by US, UK, France, NATO. secondly, Russia is the country with troop movements suggesting invasion, the afforemented nations have withdrawn advisors to avoid potential incidents. thirdly, Russia has already invaded and occupies regions of Ukraine.

but you want to play the Russian line that NATO is the agressor here? :facepalm:

What is ruled out today could be a different story tomorrow. Just because for example Boris Johnson says one thing today doesnt mean he'll say the same thing tomorrow.

I dont play anyones line. Russia are interested in making Ukraine theirs while several Western countries have a century old dream to colonialise Russia.

It's the whole very one-sided "we're the good guys and they are the bad guys" shit I'm opposing as this idea is the reason people accept wars.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2016
26,419
West is BEST
What is ruled out today could be a different story tomorrow. Just because for example Boris Johnson says one thing today doesnt mean he'll say the same thing tomorrow.

I dont play anyones line. Russia are interested in making Ukraine theirs while several Western countries have a century old dream to colonialise Russia.

It's the whole very one-sided "we're the good guys and they are the bad guys" shit I'm opposing as this idea is the reason people accept wars.

Things are actually far simpler than whatever crackpot scenario you have watched on YouTube;

Russia, the aggressor wants all of Ukraine for Russia. Them joining NATO would make that very unlikely. Russia is therefore bullying them and threatening them with invasion and a war with all the horrors that incurs.

The West are going to try and stop that happening.
Of course their are fuel interests but make no mistake, we also don’t want thousands killed in a war.
 




The Antikythera Mechanism

The oldest known computer
NSC Patron
Aug 7, 2003
8,131
How many Ukrainian military personnel are facing the Russian troops, as there doesn’t seem to be a mention of this anywhere? Ukraine has an army of some 250,000 soldiers, where are they all?
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Under NATO flag? None. Under "we're a bunch of NATO nations bombing some country but we're definitely not calling ourselves NATO because that would not look good when we try to recruit more members" flag? Many.

That is altering facts to make a ridiculous point about nothing. Yes countries have bombed other countries but it was individual countries not NATO, nor under any NATO agreement.

I repeat, NATO is a peacekeeping force. You cannot spin it any other way.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Well yes, exactly Dazzer...but will we do it? I doubt it. Sadly the UK is open for investment, from anyone, especially corrupt investment, anytime. It drives me mad.

Unfortunately, London is the money laundering capital of the world.
 




A1X

Well-known member
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Sep 1, 2017
20,859
Deepest, darkest Sussex
[tweet]1493500605263974402[/tweet]
 


heathgate

Well-known member
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Apr 13, 2015
3,903
What is ruled out today could be a different story tomorrow. Just because for example Boris Johnson says one thing today doesnt mean he'll say the same thing tomorrow.

I dont play anyones line. Russia are interested in making Ukraine theirs while several Western countries have a century old dream to colonialise Russia.

It's the whole very one-sided "we're the good guys and they are the bad guys" shit I'm opposing as this idea is the reason people accept wars.
Who wants to colonise Russia??.. jesus christ... answer = nobody outside of your turgid imagination... at least have a debate using some credible contributions, this isn't a Tom Clancy novel.

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heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,903
Well yes, exactly Dazzer...but will we do it? I doubt it. Sadly the UK is open for investment, from anyone, especially corrupt investment, anytime. It drives me mad.
They can invest in as much property as they like .. they can't take it with them, the money is spent.

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heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,903
Unfortunately, London is the money laundering capital of the world.
"UK received the most favourable rating of the 60 countries evaluated by the FATF in the preceding five years in regard to its policies to combat money laundering"

Please do some research before blithely posting baseless rhetoric.

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Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
"UK received the most favourable rating of the 60 countries evaluated by the FATF in the preceding five years in regard to its policies to combat money laundering"

Please do some research before blithely posting baseless rhetoric.

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Source and date?

That's only what has been discovered,
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
63,088
The Fatherland
One voice yes, normally Germany when it is economics and trade being considered... sadly for Germany in this instance, this is big boys stuff, real diplomacy backed up with some tangible resolve and unity is not the forte of your homeland, France are better placed I agree, lets hope they help light a spark of common sense in Vlads little brain.

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Let’s wait and see. The very first thing to do in any dispute is listen to the other party. I therefore have confidence in the EU resolving this via diplomacy.
 








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