[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Deportivo Seagull]

Yep, I just seem to assume now that Trump and Musk will lie most of time, like their pal Putin.

It is Trumps normal tactic. Bully and threaten and hope that the ‘target’ will give in. This tends to work for him in business as he has loads of lawyers to use. He can’t use lawyers in politics so he’s a bit stuck.

It would be ironic if he pulls right back on Ukraine and to start mending bridges only for Europe to say’ bugger off as you can’t be trusted’.

 

[Eric the meek]

Remember the assassination attempt on the CEO of Rheinmetall? And the two sabotage episodes on Rheinmetall plants in Spain and Italy? Russia kmows the importance of this firm, and will try to damage it.

I remember reading somewhere that it was capable of producing more artillery shells on its own, than the whole of Russia. Don't quote me on that though. The source is long gone.

Nevertheless, I am very glad that Germany is about to play a full part in European defence.

 

[raymondo]

Strong Words from German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, even more so as hes an SPD politician

"German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier has just addressed the summit in Kyiv via video link.

"It is Russia that started this war," he says. "Russia may have gained an open ear in the White House but they have not gained an inch of legitimacy."

"Does anybody honestly think that some thoughtless conversations, or some reckless statements, can crush our resolve?" he asks.

"No, quite the opposite. The past two weeks have only strengthened our resolve as Europeans. More than ever we have to stand up for ourselves and Ukraine."

It's brilliant! He seems to have been very much in the background in recent years (I didn't even know his name ) , but the US insults directed at Europe have fired him up...and I actually think the timing of his speech last week helped encourage 'traditional' voters out, so keeping the Afd in second place.
A strong German voice will be of GREAT encouragement to France, Poland, UK, and particularly to the Baltics at this time.

 

[raymondo]

It is Trumps normal tactic. Bully and threaten and hope that the ‘target’ will give in. This tends to work for him in business as he has loads of lawyers to use. He can’t use lawyers in politics so he’s a bit stuck.

It would be ironic if he pulls right back on Ukraine and to start mending bridges only for Europe to say’ bugger off as you can’t be trusted’.

I would like that. He clearly can't be trusted, and therefore the US can't while he's in power.
Hopefully European leaders can show strength through unity, isolate Trump and Musk, whilst still keeping reasonable relations with any decent US politicians that show their face.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It is Trumps normal tactic. Bully and threaten and hope that the ‘target’ will give in. This tends to work for him in business as he has loads of lawyers to use. He can’t use lawyers in politics so he’s a bit stuck.

It would be ironic if he pulls right back on Ukraine and to start mending bridges only for Europe to say’ bugger off as you can’t be trusted’.

I'm starting to come round to the idea that what we are dealing with is basically an even more greedy, narcissistic 'Trolly' Johnson, bouncing from one thing to another, on huge amounts of speed with a particularly vicious streak. He seems to have no capacity for concepts or detail, hence the weirdly meandering speeches and policies. He doesn't understand the differences between Gaza and Disneyland, he confuses Asylum seekers with Lunatic Asylums and his latest diatribes against Ukraine shows he has no understanding of any aspect of that situation either.

It's almost as if nobody can tell him that he isn't the most brilliant business/political/strategic mind on the planet and he is careering onwards like a some broken clockwork toy, lurching from one thing to another, whilst loads of people attempt to try and follow him.

Whenever I have come across this sort of weirdness in the past, the conspiracy has always been so complex, that it turned out to be cock up all along.

No less dangerous, but a little more logical

 

[Mackenzie]

I would like that. He clearly can't be trusted, and therefore the US can't while he's in power.
Hopefully European leaders can show strength through unity, isolate Trump and Musk, whilst still keeping reasonable relations with any decent US politicians that show their face.

Unity is the word.

 

[fly high]

It is amusing to watch all the replies to posts I am ignoring, not interested in having a look as I know the writing will be complete Kremlin talking points. Lol.

On another point are there any anti-immigration parties in Europe that are not pro-Putin ?

Isn't the Italian government right wing anti immigration but pro Ukraine?

 

[Jim in the West]

I would like that. He clearly can't be trusted, and therefore the US can't while he's in power.
Hopefully European leaders can show strength through unity, isolate Trump and Musk, whilst still keeping reasonable relations with any decent US politicians that show their face.

I think the thing about trust is critical - Europe can no longer trust the US. And even if a Democrat returned to the White House in 2029, as long as Trump-like acolytes remain powerful in the Republican party that trust in the US is gone. So basically, Europe MUST go its own way now. I'm sure most European leaders recognise that, and I hope in the UK we can rapidly move closer to the EU. Brexit now looks like not just an economic disaster, but also a security disaster.

 

[BrickTamland]

The only possible positive to potentially come from this - and by no means do I say this justifies what has happened to Ukraine - is that we allign ourselves with Europe again.

We, along with France and Germany need to be leading European defence. Those outside Europe cannot, and should not be relied on.

 

[peterward]

Isn't the Italian government right wing anti immigration but pro Ukraine?

I was actually quite fearful when Meloni won, her party being that which orginally birthed Mussolini as his fascists..... She said theyd changed and were not fascists, I didnt believe them before, I assumed it would be terrible for Ukraine and european unity, but shes internationally, she's been excellent, very pro Ukraine, anti Russia, a genuine euro atlanticist and reliable partner.

I cant profess to know how or what she's doing domestically, but thats for Italians anyway. The bit thats important for us, has been very good.

 

[peterward]

The only possible positive to potentially come from this - and by no means do I say this justifies what has happened to Ukraine - is that we allign ourselves with Europe again.

We, along with France and Germany need to be leading European defence. Those outside Europe cannot, and should not be relied on.

As one of only 2 european nuclear powers, I'd say its a must..... and there is no contradiction in UK being a part of a strong regional security defence alliance and being governed by/from the EU. Those leave/remain arguments are not mutually exclusive and seperate to a bi lateral defence pact.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

As one of only 2 european nuclear powers, I'd say its a must..... and there is no contradiction in UK being a part of a strong regional security defence alliance and being governed by/from the EU. Those leave/remain arguments are not mutually exclusive and seperate to a bi lateral defence pact.

One of the drivers of Farage etc was absolutely no EU army and as most of Europe is in the EU it is very pertinent.
I do wonder if Farage feels played …..

 

[SouthSaxon]

Meanwhile, Boris reckons Trump’s “deal” contains “very promising things for Ukraine” then proceeds to claim it “commits the United States to a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine, and it commits the United States to future financing of Ukraine”.

Last I heard, that claim would have been false. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I’ll assume this is mental gymnastics to justify his past positions.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Meanwhile, Boris reckons Trump’s “deal” contains “very promising things for Ukraine” then proceeds to claim it “commits the United States to a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine, and it commits the United States to future financing of Ukraine”.

Last I heard, that claim would have been false. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I’ll assume this is mental gymnastics to justify his past Boris has only a slightly better grip on reality than Trump so it’s going to be bollocks.

Boris has only a slightly better grip on reality than Trump so it’s going to be bollocks. Is Boris a ‘thing‘ anymore?

 

[peterward]

Meanwhile, Boris reckons Trump’s “deal” contains “very promising things for Ukraine” then proceeds to claim it “commits the United States to a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine, and it commits the United States to future financing of Ukraine”.

Last I heard, that claim would have been false. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I’ll assume this is mental gymnastics to justify his past positions.

Its bollocks. The Ukrainians have said the deal states, that it doesnt guarantee US aid or future arms sales.

Aparantly, the very fact that the US are in Ukraine pillaging its resources, should act as a guarantee that US are on your side.

 

[raymondo]

I think the thing about trust is critical - Europe can no longer trust the US. And even if a Democrat returned to the White House in 2029, as long as Trump-like acolytes remain powerful in the Republican party that trust in the US is gone. So basically, Europe MUST go its own way now. I'm sure most European leaders recognise that, and I hope in the UK we can rapidly move closer to the EU. Brexit now looks like not just an economic disaster, but also a security disaster.

Hopefully not a security disaster - I have the feeling that we're working well with the EU on this. Time will tell

 

[SouthSaxon]

Boris has only a slightly better grip on reality than Trump so it’s going to be bollocks. Is Boris a ‘thing‘ anymore?

Its bollocks. The Ukrainians have said the deal states, that it doesnt guarantee US aid or future arms sales.

Aparantly, the very fact that the US are in Ukraine pillaging its resources, should act as a guarantee that US are on your side.

Thanks, I thought as much. There’s so much noise around this thing there’s always a remote possibility I’ve missed something that Boris hasn’t.

Is Boris still a thing? Unfortunately, the media still think so.

 

[raymondo]

Isn't the Italian government right wing anti immigration but pro Ukraine?

I believe you're right

 

[raymondo]

Good timing from Europe, Canada and Australia, including a strong commitment from the UK .
It's almost as if they got their ducks in a row and coordinated by phone.
A good way to mark the third anniversary of the invasion, and to show unity in the face of US stupidity.

 

[raymondo]

Never forget who invaded.