[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[beorhthelm]

No wonder Roman Abramovic is worried.

But....to be clear did his daughter really tweet in support of the Ukranians or is Roman actually best buds with Putin? Both can't be true. Who knowns the facts?

whats the use of facts when you have 20-odd years of perceptions to base a prejudice on?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No wonder Roman Abramovic is worried.

But....to be clear did his daughter really tweet in support of the Ukranians or is Roman actually best buds with Putin? Both can't be true. Who knowns the facts?

They certainly can both be true. I don’t know the specifics on the Abramovich family though.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Missiles have been fired from Belarus so Zelensky is right to refuse to go there.

[tweet]1497838644933054464[/tweet]

Zelensky remembers the Hungarian leader who was sweet talked out of the Yugoslav embassy by the Soviets. And then was murdered.

 

[essbee1]

The way the wind's blowing, I think the economy of Russia may start collapsing on Monday. Russian banks absolutely shitting themselves and
acting in a way which will have the complete opposite effect of panicking in Russia - panic cash withdrawals. I'm no economist, but it's going to
go t*ts up for them.

 

[jakarta]

[tweet]1497738628944080898[/tweet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f8BBTbWSzk

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

By the way, there is no need for peace talks.

Putins army can just turn round and go home.

 

[portslade seagull]

By the way, there is no need for peace talks.

Putins army can just turn round and go home.

Well the Ukrainians are definitely kicking some Russian Arse and are putting up a great defence

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

[tweet]1497738628944080898[/tweet]

Money talks. There will be some interesting discussions taking place among the Kremlin’s financiers.

 

[Seagull27]

Ukraine are saying that Russian military deaths are about 4,300 so far, whereas Ukrainian deaths are about 200. These numbers seem incredibly imbalanced - am I missing something here? Or should we not trust the Ukrainian figures quoted?

 

[Me and my Monkey]

By the way, there is no need for peace talks.

Putins army can just turn round and go home.

Indeed. What on earth is there to negotiate?

 

[Eeyore]

He had a view the other day about NATO being a ‘colonial force.’ I asked him to list the NATO colonies and didn’t get a reply. He is doing exactly the same as he does with Covid ie spewing out phrases in scattergun fashion, anything that allows him to claim superior knowledge to everybody else. He regurgitates conspiracy theory he has read on the internet. He should be banned from the thread because he is ruining it and I will now go elsewhere for updates. The most disappointing thing is when he garners support from people such as yourself.

Swanny does sometimes have support from me, other times quite the opposite. Sometimes you do, other times quite the opposite. Sometimes Swanny does say the strangest tings, but other times, as in this thread, there will be occasions when he hits the nail on the head. It's all a matter of opinion. There are NSC members who irritate me much, but I am conscious that maybe I irritate them too. I have never been 'infracted' or banned. I suspect I never will be.

As regards posting false information, unwittingly we all do it, it is a question of what is deliberate is miss-leading.

An example is this quote: '...the media (or rather the military–industrial–media comple) decides what people are or are not interested in'

Better folk than I have often remarked the same thing. And this feeds into his 'Goodies v Baddies' mantra. He is right to do this. As clear as it is that a sovereign country has been invaded, and you and I would both agree that Russia must stop, I am not viewing like some World Cup campaign as others are, fed by the barrage of jingoistic support for our new team from quarters of the press.

Russia has no right to start a war in Ukraine. Russia should leave immediately. But this does not mean that the original concerns should not have been addressed:

Yanis Varoufakis, for me one of the most balanced commentators in Europe who considers all side (read- Adults in the Room- his take on the EU during the Greek crisis when he was Finance Minister there) says:

[Tweet]1496952362048671745[/Tweet]

I could go on. But, yes, for certain Russia has done a really awful thing here. And I support the Ukranian effort to remove them. But on the whole NATO thing I do find myself questioning the motives of many in the West that can easily be wrapped up in a kind of righteousness that covers a multitude of underlying intent. And that is why, beyond the obvious support for the Ukrainians people's right to defend their own country, questions should be asked.

And I will not be swept along by the media, NSC, RT, the BBC (who I deeply respect unlike many), who may wish to push a narrative.

 

[raymondo]

By the way, there is no need for peace talks.

Putins army can just turn round and go home.

Absolutely.
I tried to PM you yesterday, but you are off grid...very sensible. A year ago I mentioned The Ukraine in a post. You gently reminded me it is just 'Ukraine'. I gave a slightly tetchy reply ... that's not like me really. Anyway, you were right, as words convey meanings and accuracy is important. It's easy to slip from The UK to The Ukraine...but it's wrong. A belated public apology, and especially for my tetchy reaction. Regards, R

 

[raymondo]

I think the plan is to utilise their mobile crematoriums and avoid the bodies returning home

For sure...coffins are hard to hide.

 

[Eric the meek]

Russian central bank urges calm amid fears of rush for cash - BBC.

Russia's central bank is appealing for calm amid fears that new financial sanctions could spark a run on its banks - that is, too many people trying to withdraw money.
In a statement, it said: "The Bank of Russia has the necessary resources and tools to maintain financial stability and ensure the operational continuity of the financial sector."
On Saturday, Europe, the US, the UK and Canada announced that the assets of Russia's central bank will be frozen. It has reserves of around $630bn (£470bn).
The sanctions against the Bank of Russia would stop it from selling assets overseas to support its own banks and companies.
Europe, the US and its allies have also announced that a number of Russian banks will be removed from Swift, the international payment system which is pivotal for the smooth transaction of money worldwide.
Analysts predict that on Monday, when most markets reopen, the value of the rouble will drop - and Russians may rush to remove their money from banks.
"These new sanctions are likely to cause serious damage to the Russian economy and its banking system", said Clay Lowery, executive vice president at the Institute of International Finance.
"This will most likely exacerbate ongoing bank runs...causing a sharp sell-off, and a drain on reserves."

Nice one Ursula.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Swanny does sometimes have support from me, other times quite the opposite. Sometimes you do, other times quite the opposite. Sometimes Swanny does say the strangest tings, but other times, as in this thread, there will be occasions when he hits the nail on the head. It's all a matter of opinion. There are NSC members who irritate me much, but I am conscious that maybe I irritate them too. I have never been 'infracted' or banned. I suspect I never will be.

As regards posting false information, unwittingly we all do it, it is a question of what is deliberate in its miss-leading.

An example is this quote: '...the media (or rather the military–industrial–media comple) decides what people are or are not interested in'

Better folk than I have often remarked the same thing. And this feeds into his 'Goodies v Baddies' mantra. He is right to do this. As clear as it is that a sovereign country has been invaded, and you and I would both agree that Russia must stop, I am not viewing like some World Cup campaign as others are, fed by the barrage of jingoistic support for our new team from quarters of the press.

Russia has no right to start a war in Ukraine. Russia should leave immediately. But this does not mean that the original concerns should not have been addressed:

Yanis Varoufakis, for me one of the most balanced commentators in Europe who considers all side (read- Adults in the Room- his take on the EU during the Greek crisis when he was Finance Minister there) says:

[Tweet]1496952362048671745[/Tweet]

I could go on. But, yes, for certain Russia has done a really awful thing here. And I support the Ukranian effort to remove them. But on the whole NATO thing I do find myself questioning the motives of many in the West that can easily be wrapped up in a kind of righteousness that covers a multitude of underlying intent. And that is why, beyond the obvious support for the Ukrainians people's right to defend their own country, questions should be asked.

And I will not be swept along by the media, NSC, RT, the BBC (who I deeply respect unlike many), who may wish to push a narrative.

The problem with your analysis (and that of Varoufakis) is that it treats the Ukraine as some sort of pawn to be bartered over by Russia and the West. Ukrainians are making it very clear that they value their independence and that means the freedom to align with whomsoever they choose.

 

[A1X]

Ukraine are saying that Russian military deaths are about 4,300 so far, whereas Ukrainian deaths are about 200. These numbers seem incredibly imbalanced - am I missing something here? Or should we not trust the Ukrainian figures quoted?

I think we should always be sceptical about either side declaring such figures about either their or their opponents forces. Both sides have an agenda, and while I am infinitely more minded to trust the Ukrainians than the Russians we should always view things through that prism.

 

[raymondo]

No wonder Roman Abramovic is worried.

But....to be clear did his daughter really tweet in support of the Ukranians or is Roman actually best buds with Putin? Both can't be true. Who knowns the facts?

Daddy may have asked her to post that to ease the pressure. Let's not drop our guard about the deluge of constant lies from the Russian government and their supporters

 

[A1X]

Russian central bank urges calm amid fears of rush for cash - BBC.

Russia's central bank is appealing for calm amid fears that new financial sanctions could spark a run on its banks - that is, too many people trying to withdraw money.
In a statement, it said: "The Bank of Russia has the necessary resources and tools to maintain financial stability and ensure the operational continuity of the financial sector."
On Saturday, Europe, the US, the UK and Canada announced that the assets of Russia's central bank will be frozen. It has reserves of around $630bn (£470bn).
The sanctions against the Bank of Russia would stop it from selling assets overseas to support its own banks and companies.
Europe, the US and its allies have also announced that a number of Russian banks will be removed from Swift, the international payment system which is pivotal for the smooth transaction of money worldwide.
Analysts predict that on Monday, when most markets reopen, the value of the rouble will drop - and Russians may rush to remove their money from banks.
"These new sanctions are likely to cause serious damage to the Russian economy and its banking system", said Clay Lowery, executive vice president at the Institute of International Finance.
"This will most likely exacerbate ongoing bank runs...causing a sharp sell-off, and a drain on reserves."

Nice one Ursula.

General rule of thumb is if you have to tell people not to panic then there’s probably something they need to panic about, and it almost always has entirely the opposite effect. I think they’re extremely worried what will happen to the economy tomorrow morning.

 

[essbee1]

General rule of thumb is if you have to tell people not to panic then there’s probably something they need to panic about, and it almost always has entirely the opposite effect. I think they’re extremely worried what will happen to the economy tomorrow morning.

This. Human nature innit.

Interestingly - if anti-war people in Russia want to help Ukraine - go draw out/withdraw as much dosh as you can....NOW

 

[raymondo]

I think we should always be sceptical about either side declaring such figures about either their or their opponents forces. Both sides have an agenda, and while I am infinitely more minded to trust the Ukrainians than the Russians we should always view things through that prism.

Let's hope the Russian army and people see those numbers though...