[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Triggaaar]

With reserves, the Russian Army is 3m.

Source: Reuters

https://search.app/HCtNQsA9RzV6gTh99

It’s been engaged in a 3 year conflict with an opponent actively supported by the West, in both military hardware and money.

And while Ukraine has been supported by the West, Russia has been supported by China, Iran, and North Korea. North Korea have sent over 10,000 troops to join them in the fight. No Western ally has done similarly for Ukraine.

The Russian Army during that period has remained unified

This is the laughable, factually inaccurate bit. Russians have tied their comrades to trees on the front line for disobeying orders. Russian's have shot their own comrades because they're against the war. Many Russians have released videos highlighting that they are completely against their leaders and that they don't want to fight. Instead of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, Russian's are now turning up on the front line with donkeys as transport. They're laughing at how stupid this and their war effort is. They are completely divided.

and probably more important taken hold of the parts of eastern Ukraine Putin set out to grab.

Putin set out to grab the entire country. They took large parts of eastern Ukraine in the first few days when they illegally invaded, but since then they've lost more ground than they've taken. They've also lost control of the own land in Kursk. And that's just against Ukraine!

None of those statements is Russian propaganda, they are irrefutable truths.

Yes they are propaganda, and as pointed out, they are not true.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Russia occupies and has occupied c. 20% of Ukraine since the war started, and it’s not the other way round.

With the US pulling the plug on military aid, I would argue Ukraine’s prospects are worse today than at any other time in 3 years.

I know others on here, perhaps you will see if differently, as you are entitled to do.

20% in three years. Russia really is shit.

It looks like Europe are increasing aid so things will get very interesting. It’ll piss Trump off as its one less bargaining chip.

You’re entitled to your opinion. Its wrong, no surprises there, but there you go.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

It’s already been tried and failed. Toyota went all in on it, sold about 12 of their Mirai cars, and nobody was willing to carry the fuel.

They are now belatedly beginning to develop electric cars, but a decade after everybody else.

Strange that as there is a very safe fuel cell, just need the Green hydrogen. No one will invest in the infrastructure until that is place.

 

[chickens]

So, the US (under Trump at least) is a hostile state. Massively difficult for Ukraine. Zelensky clearly being bounced into selling his country’s mineral rights against his will.

Musk threatening to cut Ukraine’s communication channels unless the deal is ratified. Disgusting.

It also puts the UK in an incredibly difficult situation, since we’ve been separated from Europe (I still suspect at least partly through Russian disinformation and useful idiots in the UK) and America owns us wholesale.

We must push all our efforts into ensuring our own democracy does not fall to Reform or the current Conservative Party, who will happily sell Ukraine down the river to be chums with the Musk/Trump axis.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Russian Army during that period has remained unified and probably more important taken hold of the parts of eastern Ukraine Putin set out to grab.

None of those statements is Russian propaganda, they are irrefutable truths.

I suppose if you consider Russian Army units clapping the Wagner Rebellion into their military bases, that might be true.

But to everyone else on this board, it IS vile Russian propaganda. The Russian army were certainly not unified in their reaction to Prigozhin’s attempted coup. Some applauded him and supported him, others attacked him.

As others have said, they are shipping in North Koreans for the meat grinder on the front line. The Russian Army largely operates out of fear or money lust. Evil criminals released from prison rub shoulders with foreign mercenaries and innocent Russian young men who have been ripped out of their normal peaceful lives by conscription and sent to the trenches to die. The whole thing will fall apart once the Putin fear factor is removed. They’ll all go home.

Your knowledge and judgement of the Russian Army is ignorant, wretched and I would guess, profoundly insincere as you attempt to gaslight the board with your hard right farage-eque politics.

It’s not working.

 

[Eric the meek]

Surprising section about the use of Russian assets for reconstruction

It's early days but that is fraught with problems. Reconstruction of the occupied areas according to Moscow etc.

If Europe keeps hold of the money, that would give Russia an excuse to have a go at Europe etc.

 

[armchairclubber]

And while Ukraine has been supported by the West, Russia has been supported by China, Iran, and North Korea. North Korea have sent over 10,000 troops to join them in the fight. No Western ally has done similarly for Ukraine.


This is the laughable, factually inaccurate bit. Russians have tied their comrades to trees on the front line for disobeying orders. Russian's have shot their own comrades because they're against the war. Many Russians have released videos highlighting that they are completely against their leaders and that they don't want to fight. Instead of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, Russian's are now turning up on the front line with donkeys as transport. They're laughing at how stupid this and their war effort is. They are completely divided.


Putin set out to grab the entire country. They took large parts of eastern Ukraine in the first few days when they illegally invaded, but since then they've lost more ground than they've taken. They've also lost control of the own land in Kursk. And that's just against Ukraine!

I don't disagree with that you say.

I'd only add that if Putin sees things looking so bleak, having already had support from the nations you mention, might he feel justified to do something that he regularly mentioned before, namely 'push that button' or other tactics you wouldn't really want to think about.

He's gone a bit quiet on that threat, so maybe it's diminished, if anyone ever took it seriously.

 

[SeagullinExile]

And while Ukraine has been supported by the West, Russia has been supported by China, Iran, and North Korea. North Korea have sent over 10,000 troops to join them in the fight. No Western ally has done similarly for Ukraine.




This is the laughable, factually inaccurate bit. Russians have tied their comrades to trees on the front line for disobeying orders. Russian's have shot their own comrades because they're against the war. Many Russians have released videos highlighting that they are completely against their leaders and that they don't want to fight. Instead of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, Russian's are now turning up on the front line with donkeys as transport. They're laughing at how stupid this and their war effort is. They are completely divided.



Putin set out to grab the entire country. They took large parts of eastern Ukraine in the first few days when they illegally invaded, but since then they've lost more ground than they've taken. They've also lost control of the own land in Kursk. And that's just against Ukraine!



Yes they are propaganda, and as pointed out, they are not true.

A point about the deployment of NK troops. They have only been deployed in Kursk, not in Ukraine. If they were to be deployed in Ukraine, that would open the door for foreign troops to enter the conflict on the Ukrainian side. Russia knows this.

 

[Eric the meek]

Europe prepares a $20.9 billion miltary aid package:

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't disagree with that you say.

I'd only add that if Putin sees things looking so bleak, having already had support from the nations you mention, might he feel justified to do something that he regularly mentioned before, namely 'push that button' or other tactics you wouldn't really want to think about.

Russia won't fire nukes because it doesn't achieve anything. The power of nukes is as a threat, but if Russia fires nukes, the reaction from the West would be too much for Russia. Now this could have changed with Trump now in charge, which is scary, but still, nukes aren't helpful when your enemies also have them.

He's gone a bit quiet on that threat, so maybe it's diminished, if anyone ever took it seriously.

At the moment he has support from Trump, so he's going to be feeling like he can win this war. As long as Europe and Ukraine stand strong, he'll start making his empty threats again.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I was thinking that as I posted . I think I read that other alternatives to lithium are being researched too.

Sodium is likely to be the game changer, not Hydrogen. Hydrogen, even fully green is costly to produce, store and transport. It definitely could have application for large vehicles and even aircraft, but not for cars.

 

[Triggaaar]

A point about the deployment of NK troops. They have only been deployed in Kursk, not in Ukraine.

Yes I know. The point was that Russian propagandist cunning fergus was claiming that Russia is too strong and powerful for Europe to take on, which is bullshit, as highlighted by them having to get North Korea to help defend themselves against Ukraine.

 

[armchairclubber]

So, the US (under Trump at least) is a hostile state. Massively difficult for Ukraine. Zelensky clearly being bounced into selling his country’s mineral rights against his will.

Musk threatening to cut Ukraine’s communication channels unless the deal is ratified. Disgusting.

It also puts the UK in an incredibly difficult situation, since we’ve been separated from Europe (I still suspect at least partly through Russian disinformation and useful idiots in the UK) and America owns us wholesale.

We must push all our efforts into ensuring our own democracy does not fall to Reform or the current Conservative Party, who will happily sell Ukraine down the river to be chums with the Musk/Trump axis.

At some point I think the UK might realise it has it very own 'useful idiot' sitting in a very prominent position.

 

[armchairclubber]

Russia won't fire nukes because it doesn't achieve anything. The power of nukes is as a threat, but if Russia fires nukes, the reaction from the West would be too much for Russia. Now this could have changed with Trump now in charge, which is scary, but still, nukes aren't helpful when your enemies also have them.




At the moment he has support from Trump, so he's going to be feeling like he can win this war. As long as Europe and Ukraine stand strong, he'll start making his empty threats again.

I thought I had summed all that up with my last sentence.

 

[Triggaaar]

At some point I think the UK might realise it has it very own 'useful idiot' sitting in a very prominent position.

Cunning Fergus is in a prominent position?

 

[raymondo]

 

[armchairclubber]

Cunning Fergus is in a prominent position?

Well, judging by this thread, only if you're a Russian Agent.

Are you?

 

[chickens]

At some point I think the UK might realise it has it very own 'useful idiot' sitting in a very prominent position.

Yeah, I don’t want to derail this, let’s leave wider discussion of UK politics in the relevant thread. However, all of Reform and more than half of the current Conservative Party are in thrall to this Trump/Musk movement. That’s where the threat is to Ukraine.

Whatever one thinks of Labour’s domestic policies, their support for Zelenskyy has been unwavering, and reconfirmed even after Trump’s disgraceful statements. Neither Labour nor Lib Dem pose a threat to UK support for Ukraine.

 

[Triggaaar]

Well, judging by this thread, only if you're a Russian Agent.

Are you?

I'm not sure what it's got to do with me?

 

[armchairclubber]

I'm not sure what it's got to do with me?

Best keep a little quiet then.