Russell Brand.........

[spring hall convert]

My posts #122, #168, #213 give my reasons why I think he's not walking the walk. Does it matter? Not unless you're calling for a revolution - but that's what he IS doing.

Why does it matter if he IS calling for a revolution then?

Here's my rub, you're either listening to what he's saying and the causes that he's aligning himself to and you think "Yes, I like this, I think this is a good idea." "No, This is terrible" or "I couldn't really give a toss." I have no understanding of why his bank balance makes any difference. Our Houses of Parliament are stuffed full of millionaires claiming to represent ordinary people, achieving far less for them than Russell Brand.

 

[Buzzer]

Why does it matter if he IS calling for a revolution then?

Because it's a revolution calling for the overthrow of capitalism and the concept of private ownership except where you're a full participant (at work, at home). How can he be any different from those he rails against if he indulges in the same "do as I say, not as I do" school of political rhetoric?

I think his heart is probably in the right place (I'm still not 100% convinced it's not just narcissism) and I do admire him for standing up to those property developers, what he did was fantastic and I give him full credit. Narcissism or not, he won the day.

 

[Buzzer]

How can anyone escape capitalism or private ownership? It's everywhere, it's unavoidable.

Because someone lives in a capitalist society it absolves them and/or prevents them from living where possible under the ideals they want society to be based upon? I don't think so. There's many, many co-operatives and anarcho-syndicalists who are doing just that now. A very famous one in Brighton, as it happens.

 

[spring hall convert]

Because it's a revolution calling for the overthrow of capitalism and the concept of private ownership except where you're a full participant (at work, at home). How can he be any different from those he rails against if he indulges in the same "do as I say, not as I do" school of political rhetoric?

I don't agree but I do at least understand where you are coming from.

 

[Buzzer]

It is impossible to escape the burdens of private ownership, bills, taxes. There is no "opting out" of this capitalist system, it will always come for you in one way or another.

If it were possible for me to "opt out" and live off the grid, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I suppose in your eyes, because I'm not - it makes me a hypocrite?

No, you're putting words in my mouth and not understanding the point I'm making at all. I'm not talking about opting out and I gave examples where people are living as much as possible to the ideals that they think society should aspire to and remaining on the grid.

 

[spring hall convert]

But I suppose in your eyes, because I'm not - it makes me a hypocrite?

That's the trap in this debate, the hypocricy charge is a distraction tactic. The current establishment are hypocritical but that's alright because it's the status-quo.

 

[Buzzer]

I don't agree but I do at least understand where you are coming from.

Fair dos

 

[Triggaaar]

He's put himself as de facto leader of this revolution so he needs to lead by example. It's what leaders should do.

But he doesn't want to lead. He wants to complain about what he sees as injustice, he hopes others will complain too, and that a leader will emerge. He should be allowed to complain and encourage revolt without having to be the leader.

 

[London Irish]

That's the trap in this debate, the hypocricy charge is a distraction tactic. The current establishment are hypocritical but that's alright because it's the status-quo.

The other popular distraction tactic is inputing ideas to Brand that he's never said or argued for.

But if anyone would care to read his book, he deals with all this flak in a fairly entertaining way, and I say this as someone who has never particularly rated him as a comedian.

You will also get a clear sense of what he is arguing for - the tone is modest, he is at the stage of indentifying the problem and recommending some writers who he thinks address the issues in a constructive way. He is honest there is no worked-out master plan.

 

[pastafarian]

Another viewpoint I don't understand is that he shouldn't speak out if he doesn't have the answers. Why? And if we genuinely believe that, could we trial a week of this forum with that as the guiding principle?

Surely he does have some of the answers though.He wishes to address and solve inequalities.Lets take is as written we all agree this is fair and just.Russell Brands idea of achieving this is completely removing capitalism and replacing it in this country with a society based on the model of anarcho-syndicalism.

The real question(ignoring his hairstyle,where he lives or what drugs he used to take) is does anyone want to live under that sort of system......i really do not.

do you?

 

[El Presidente]

I would expect a more coherent response from you as oppose to a weak personal attack...............

I will blame Brown and the EU for what they are responsible for; and Brown (Miliband and Balls) were all involved to a greater or lesser degree in failing to regulate the Banks. To level all the criticism at the Banks allows them off the hook.

As for the EU, I like Brand's rhetoric about tax avoidance, and he has a point. However to level that at the corporations is to let those who helped create these arrangments for corporates in the first place off the hook too.

You know what comes next dont you.................

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0a4a2cf8-6f22-11e4-8d86-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3MLZeexKC

Once Brand turns his guns onto the establishment, then I will appluad him. Till then he is missing a key part of the problem.

The lack of regulation existed pre Brown, and there hasn't been a huge amount of tightening of the rules from the current regime either. Even if it had existed, it would have made relatively little difference to what happened in 2008, which was a global crisis in the finance industry. The UK, due to having a significant part of the economy devoted to that industry (and I work in it too for part of the year), was therefore exposed to what was happening elsewhere in the world.

My personal view is that the bankers are the smartest kids on the block, and can run rings round the poorly paid regulators, who don't have the speed of thought, resources or support to do much to stop them. Remember that the global trade in derivatives is about $7 trillion DAILY, ( $7,000,000,000,000,000) and transactions are taking place and in ways which are off the scale in terms of complexity.

I used to teach creative accounting courses for all the investment banks from 2002-2008, (so the recession is MY fault of course) and the questions I would be regularly asked were incredible, these kids have amazingly sharp minds, but integrity and ethics was never the angle they were coming from.

After 2008 I told the banks I couldn't teach such a course any more, as it would be a public relations disaster for them given the public hostility towards their profession at the time. They duly listened, nodded, agreed, and then asked me to teach their staff exactly the same materials and techniques...............but call the course 'Advanced accounting'. The owners of Sellafield would be having trebles all round at such ingenuity.

 

[spring hall convert]

Surely he does have some of the answers though.He wishes to address and solve inequalities.Lets take is as written we all agree this is fair and just.Russell Brands idea of achieving this is completely removing capitalism and replacing it in this country with a society based on the model of anarcho-syndicalism.

The real question(ignoring his hairstyle,where he lives or what drugs he used to take) is does anyone want to live under that sort of system......i really do not.

do you?

I don't know.

I just don't think the introduction of the debate should be stifled by irrelavance though. Let the man talk, if he's talking bollocks he'll soon get found out.

 

[tinycowboy]

They duly listened, nodded, agreed, and then asked me to teach their staff exactly the same materials and techniques...............but call the course 'Advanced accounting'.

Out of interest, what topics do you cover on this course?

 

[GOM]

Of course. Imagine a world where the sole purpose of human labour was to improve our quality of lives, rather than make the rich elite even richer. Imagine a world where instead of manically consuming our planets finite resources, destroying everything in our path, we preserved and conserved them. Imagine a world without poverty and homelessness, where working and middle class people don't have to constantly worry about where the money is going to come to pay their bills and merely exist.

These possibilities are utopian and will never happen in our life time absolutely, but they are not unattainable - they are what we should be aiming for. Equality is the key to improve the quality of lives of everyone - and the only way we can achieve that is by modernising this broken and archaic capitalist system.

Is this the communist dream ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do we actually know what all his ideals are though? He might broadly say that he follows anarcho-syndicalism but this does not necessarily mean he follows, or indeed has to follow, every classical line of this particular manifesto. And just because one doesn't follow every line it doesn't necessarily make you a hypocrite.

I'm pretty confident you could find perceived contradiction/hypocrisy in the vast majority of people who follow a particular specific political ideal. In fact I've probably seen more accusations within groups who are commonly seen and believed to be adhering to very specific outsider political systems; it's nigh on impossible to adhere to every little detail even if you want to. I don't feel Brand has to tick every manifesto box and it certainly doesn't make him a hypocrite if he doesn't.

 

[Buzzer]

But he doesn't want to lead. He wants to complain about what he sees as injustice, he hopes others will complain too, and that a leader will emerge. He should be allowed to complain and encourage revolt without having to be the leader.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/25/russell-brand-revolution_n_6046058.html

“I’d give up everything," he added. "I’ve thought about this a lot, whether or not I’m prepared to go to prison or die for what I believe in. The answer is 100%, without question, yes, I’m willing to die for this.” But, Kellaway adds, he’s not going to quit comedy, "because he loves performing." When asked how lucrative it is, he shrugs.

But if anyone would care to read his book,

I've tried. I really have over the last few days' commute but it's so turgid in unnecessary prose that it becomes unreadable in parts. There's a few interesting points that I think are worth mentioning: the terrorist organisation ISIS? I forget his exact words but ISIS are founded and driven by love (ha!), George Osborne is lower than a paedophile. Brand mentions Osborne and paedophiles in the same sentence more than once he's very keen that the reader link one with t'other. He loves a conspiracy. 9/11? Controlled explosions. Those women accusing Assange of rape - dismissed quickly as part of a large system to discredit Assange. In fact his attitude to women throughout the book is extremely dodgy. It's a very strange book, that's for sure.

 

[pastafarian]

Of course. Imagine a world where the sole purpose of human labour was to improve our quality of lives, rather than make the rich elite even richer. Imagine a world where instead of manically consuming our planets finite resources, destroying everything in our path, we preserved and conserved them. Imagine a world without poverty and homelessness, where working and middle class people don't have to constantly worry about where the money is going to come to pay their bills and merely exist.

These possibilities are utopian and will never happen in our life time absolutely, but they are not unattainable - they are what we should be aiming for. Equality is the key to improve the quality of lives of everyone - and the only way we can achieve that is by modernising this broken and archaic capitalist system.

you have jumped the gun a little,i didnt realise Brand was going to fix the planet,his notion for this country is to turn it into a country based on the model of anarcho-syndicalism,this is his answer on how to solve inequalities in this country.

you are quite happy for that,well done join his revolution.

i dont want to live under that system,when someone comes along with a better model or idea for solving inequalities i will listen

 

[Triggaaar]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/25/russell-brand-revolution_n_6046058.html

“I’d give up everything," he added. "I’ve thought about this a lot, whether or not I’m prepared to go to prison or die for what I believe in. The answer is 100%, without question, yes, I’m willing to die for this.”

To extend the quote:
Brand was asked by Lucy Kellaway on his anti-capitalist and anti-establishment views and his whether or not he would be giving up his Hollywood lifestyle, to which Brand replied: “It probably does mean that, yes.” “I’d give up everything," he added. "I’ve thought about this a lot, whether or not I’m prepared to go to prison or die for what I believe in. The answer is 100%, without question, yes, I’m willing to die for this.”

That doesn't mean he wants to be the leader of a revolution, it means that if there was a revolution and capitalism was changed, he'd have to give up things, and he accepts that.

Equality is the key to improve the quality of lives of everyone

Unfortunately I don't think it is. Humans, as a species, don't work like that. Humans generally work harder when there is personal gain to be had, and the poorest in society can be better off than if we were all poor.

 

[symyjym]

To extend the quote:
Brand was asked by Lucy Kellaway on his anti-capitalist and anti-establishment views and his whether or not he would be giving up his Hollywood lifestyle, to which Brand replied: “It probably does mean that, yes.” “I’d give up everything," he added. "I’ve thought about this a lot, whether or not I’m prepared to go to prison or die for what I believe in. The answer is 100%, without question, yes, I’m willing to die for this.”


That doesn't mean he wants to be the leader of a revolution, it means that if there was a revolution and capitalism was changed, he'd have to give up things, and he accepts that.

Mmmm so after the revolution then.

 

[pastafarian]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/25/russell-brand-revolution_n_6046058.html

“I’d give up everything," he added. "I’ve thought about this a lot, whether or not I’m prepared to go to prison or die for what I believe in. The answer is 100%, without question, yes, I’m willing to die for this.” But, Kellaway adds, he’s not going to quit comedy, "because he loves performing." When asked how lucrative it is, he shrugs.




I've tried. I really have over the last few days' commute but it's so turgid in unnecessary prose that it becomes unreadable in parts. There's a few interesting points that I think are worth mentioning: the terrorist organisation ISIS? I forget his exact words but ISIS are founded and driven by love (ha!), George Osborne is lower than a paedophile. Brand mentions Osborne and paedophiles in the same sentence more than once he's very keen that the reader link one with t'other. He loves a conspiracy. 9/11? Controlled explosions. Those women accusing Assange of rape - dismissed quickly as part of a large system to discredit Assange. In fact his attitude to women throughout the book is extremely dodgy. It's a very strange book, that's for sure.

i tried as well,managed a few chapters and just found myself confused as to whether this was a serious effort or just part of a comedy skit.I jumped forward a few chapters and tried again but couldnt get into it.........pressing delete seemed the best option