Russell Brand.........

[Triggaaar]

Mmmm so after the revolution then.

What good would it do for him to give up everything before the revolution?

I thought the article by the banker (if not by a PR team) was good, and I don't think the bankers themselves are the right target, but I don't see the problem with him speaking against a system he disagrees with.

 

[Buzzer]

That doesn't mean he wants to be the leader of a revolution

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that. His book left me in no doubt. Plenty of reviews in quality newspapers and magazines worldwide also are of that opinion.

it means that if there was a revolution and capitalism was changed, he'd have to give up things, and he accepts that.

Ha!

 

[Hastings gull]

Of course. Imagine a world where the sole purpose of human labour was to improve our quality of lives, rather than make the rich elite even richer. Imagine a world where instead of manically consuming our planets finite resources, destroying everything in our path, we preserved and conserved them. Imagine a world without poverty and homelessness, where working and middle class people don't have to constantly worry about where the money is going to come to pay their bills and merely exist.

These possibilities are utopian and will never happen in our life time absolutely, but they are not unattainable - they are what we should be aiming for. Equality is the key to improve the quality of lives of everyone - and the only way we can achieve that is by modernising this broken and archaic capitalist system.

Do you not think that this is all rather extreme? If you are talking about the world as a whole, then fair enough. but if you mean Britain, then it is nonsense to suggest that people are struggling to merely exist. Of course there is poverty, and doubtless for some it is a struggle to get to the end of the month, but the idea that millions are merely existing is a gross exaggeration.

I fully appreciate that you do accept that this is utopian, but respectfully submit that equality is not attainable. Even if you have modernised the archaic etc system, as you suggest, and all are equal, how would you maintain that equality?

 

[symyjym]

What good would it do for him to give up everything before the revolution?

I thought the article by the banker (if not by a PR team) was good, and I don't think the bankers themselves are the right target, but I don't see the problem with him speaking against a system he disagrees with.

I haven’t had any respect for Brand since the Andrew Sachs incident.

It was also only two years ago that he was prancing around at the Olympics closing ceremony, taking centre stage, and getting paid handsomely by Mac Donald’s and Coca-Cola. Some say that the games are a celebration of capitalism and designed to shield the rich from risk while providing them with a spectacle to treasure. And there is he lapping it all up on the world srage.

If I want to look to someone for moral guidance it just wouldn’t be Russell Brand.

 

[Soulman]

I haven’t had any respect for Brand since the Andrew Sachs incident.

It was also only two years ago that he was prancing around at the Olympics closing ceremony, taking centre stage, and getting paid handsomely by Mac Donald’s and Coca-Cola. Some say that the games are a celebration of capitalism and designed to shield the rich from risk while providing them with a spectacle to treasure. And there is he lapping it all up on the world srage.

If I want to look to someone for moral guidance it just wouldn’t be Russell Brand.

I can just imagine the stick he would get on here if he was a ukip supporter with his past.

 

[BadFish]

I disagree with all of that because of the way he was drinking his water from the side of his mouth. Who does he think he is?

 

[BadFish]

My posts #122, #168, #213 give my reasons why I think he's not walking the walk. Does it matter? Not unless you're calling for a revolution - but that's what he IS doing.

Why does it matter if he IS calling for a revolution then?

Here's my rub, you're either listening to what he's saying and the causes that he's aligning himself to and you think "Yes, I like this, I think this is a good idea." "No, This is terrible" or "I couldn't really give a toss." I have no understanding of why his bank balance makes any difference. Our Houses of Parliament are stuffed full of millionaires claiming to represent ordinary people, achieving far less for them than Russell Brand.

Talking about his bank balance is a nice diversion from talking about what he is saying. Unfortunately for us our press have such distain for us that they think that we would rather find reasons not to listen to someone's ideas than actually read and think about them for ourselves.

FWIW here is what he has to say about his personal wealth in his book.

"Systemic change on a global scale is what is required, and because i know what is happening, that it is inevitable , that we are awakening, i will, when i know how, sever the gilded chains. "Oh yeah, mate? When?" you could crow with legitimate suspicion. Well, I suppose, like ever other aspect of this project, we'll work that out together"

 

[BadFish]

Surely he does have some of the answers though.He wishes to address and solve inequalities.Lets take is as written we all agree this is fair and just.Russell Brands idea of achieving this is completely removing capitalism and replacing it in this country with a society based on the model of anarcho-syndicalism.

The real question(ignoring his hairstyle,where he lives or what drugs he used to take) is does anyone want to live under that sort of system......i really do not.

do you?

I am only a couple of chapters into the book so far but from what i have read and what i have heard of Brand I am surprised that he has any kind of solution in place.

My understanding is that he isn't putting forward a solution at this stage, more eliciting discussion and the sharing of ideas to encourage people to make the changes they think are necessary.

Do you have a link of him putting forward this anarcho-syndicalism solution? (apologies if i missed it previously)

 

[beorhthelm]

...So much of our workforce is stuck in meaningless jobs, which do little other than make the rich richer and maintain this broken system, rather than actually serving humanity - those jobs wouldn't be missed.

so what exactly is it you think those in "meaningless jobs" should do instead? sit around on a stipend from those in "meaningfull jobs" (otherwise known as benefits). and who is to say what is and isnt meaningful? many jobs might not be fun or fullfilling, but are necessary. be careful what you wish for, because there are an awful lot of roles out there that could be replaced by automation and technology, and are only filled by meatware because its more cost effective to do so.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

He loves to get in peoples faces and aggressively bully them with his opinions rather than actually answer for his own actions

 

[BadFish]

"Technological unemployment" is not a new thing, this is where technology replaces human labour, like what pissed off the Luddites so much. Ultimately, all jobs will be replaced by computers, robots and machines - we should start preparing for that future.



I think we should scrap benefits altogether and give ALL people a "basic income" - this is where all people are given an unconditional salary which covers living costs purely because they exist... after that, if people want to work to boost their income, which a vast majority of people would choose to do, then they would be suitably rewarded - otherwise people should have the freedom to spend their time however they wish, perhaps encourage them to be creative.

Where does the money come from to pay the basic income?

 

[dazzer6666]

so what exactly is it you think those in "meaningless jobs" should do instead? sit around on a stipend from those in "meaningfull jobs" (otherwise known as benefits). and who is to say what is and isnt meaningful? many jobs might not be fun or fullfilling, but are necessary. be careful what you wish for, because there are an awful lot of roles out there that could be replaced by automation and technology, and are only filled by meatware because its more cost effective to do so.

They were saying this when I started work 30 years ago. We're no closer to it now than we were then. I am confident that there will be enough paper-pushing to see me through to retirement in maybe 10 years.

 

[BadFish]

Where does any money come from? What is money?

Money is an incredible thing, it certainly feels like it exists when you are holding it, using it, or even looking at your online statement - but it is all an illusion, it doesn't really exist. The only thing that truly exists is human labour and earth's resources.

Money once represented something real, but then capitalism made it represent something not real - debt - for the sake of economic growth. But now it seems to exist purely as shackles which keep the poor poor, and the golden whip which keeps the rich rich. The entire monetary system needs to be revolutionised so that it truly represents what it is meant to - human labour (which is more or less infinite) and the earths resources (which is finite) - this should be the focal point of any "currency", rather than debt which is incredibly inefficient at both utilising the workforce and saving the earth's resources.

Okay, so without going into the concept of what money is and isn't. What does the 'basic income' consist of and how is it distributed? I like the idea of this and am very interested in alternate ways of living i just wondered if you knew how the 'basic income' would be provided. If not money then what?

 

[Hastings gull]

Nobody is saying everyone should be perfectly equal, that's ridiculous - some people are always going to be better off than others, but that can be fair too, if the hardest working people are rewarded the most. Unfortunately, in this system that we currently have, the hardest working people are not rewarded the most - and the wealthiest people around barely work at all.

Thanks for this. Actually I had thought of bringing up the idea of fairness rather than inequality at my last post. At least we agree that the idea of perfect inequality is ridiculous, though your post did not say this. And then, as ever, you come up with the usual sweeping statement to lend some credence to your theories. Of course there will be an element of truth to what you say, but the majority of folk will have earnt what they now have. We might not like CEOs bankers etc but I do not think you could say that they have not at least worked for their money. I despised Archer all those years ago but I am sure that he was not lazy.

 

[Hastings gull]

That's the point though - we have reached a point in history where we don't need everyone to work hard anymore, technology is doing all the hard work for us and the wealth exists to sustain it. I think losing a bit of productivity for the sake of wellbeing of the masses is a worthwhile trade off. Besides, giving regular people more time to be creative can only be a good thing for human innovation. So much of our workforce is stuck in meaningless jobs, which do little other than make the rich richer and maintain this broken system, rather than actually serving humanity - those jobs wouldn't be missed.

Would you care to elaborate on the sorts of meaningless jobs to which you are rather sneeringly referring? We can of course presume that your job is not meaningless?

 

[Hastings gull]

Where does any money come from? What is money?

Money is an incredible thing, it certainly feels like it exists when you are holding it, using it, or even looking at your online statement - but it is all an illusion, it doesn't really exist. The only thing that truly exists is human labour and earth's resources.

Money once represented something real, but then capitalism made it represent something not real - debt - for the sake of economic growth. But now it seems to exist purely as shackles which keep the poor poor, and the golden whip which keeps the rich rich. The entire monetary system needs to be revolutionised so that it truly represents what it is meant to - human labour (which is more or less infinite) and the earths resources (which is finite) - this should be the focal point of any "currency", rather than debt which is incredibly inefficient at both utilising the workforce and saving the earth's resources.

With the greatest respect - what does this say about you? The post, who is clearly alive and well in this world, asked who would pay for your ideas of giving everyone a basic wage irrespective, and that those who wanted to, would find employment. So, in response, and totally ignoring the very reasonable question, you launch into this ridiculous tirade about what is money. Who would pay for giving a workforce or perhaps everyone, a basic wage? Where would this money come from, was the question! Come on, for goodness sake, get a grip on reality. And to think that you wrote that I needed to learn so much . . .

 

[KZNSeagull]

Does an anarcho-syndicalism system require voting?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Where does any money come from? What is money?

Money is an incredible thing, it certainly feels like it exists when you are holding it, using it, or even looking at your online statement - but it is all an illusion, it doesn't really exist. The only thing that truly exists is human labour and earth's resources.

Money once represented something real, but then capitalism made it represent something not real - debt - for the sake of economic growth. But now it seems to exist purely as shackles which keep the poor poor, and the golden whip which keeps the rich rich. The entire monetary system needs to be revolutionised so that it truly represents what it is meant to - human labour (which is more or less infinite) and the earths resources (which is finite) - this should be the focal point of any "currency", rather than debt which is incredibly inefficient at both utilising the workforce and saving the earth's resources.

You're mad. I always suspected it but your last few posts confirm it.

 

[portslade seagull]

Is a **** of the highest order

 

[Mr Bridger]

Apologies about this one. A few beers inspired me to encourage people to see the bigger picture, but in retrospect that was a little bit "far out".

Remember every person, every country, is slave to debt because of this capitalist monetary system that we have inherited. It only benefits a few and that is how we have found ourselves in this mess, which is bizarre considering money isn't actually real. Consider the sacrifices we are making to "reduce the deficit" - yet observe how the richest people alive are profiteering unimaginably from it. It's a rigged game.

Can you pm me the name of your dealer?