Roadmap out of Lockdown - Feb 22nd

[Weststander]

I don't suspect we'll get that, I'm convinced we will.

We can all pretty well get what the roadmap looks like now .... Monday will be a huge anti climax as you suggest

The press conference isn’t really NEEDED at all at this precise (and early) moment. But in a world of political pressures it is held because:

1. Starmer might otherwise say that he would’ve set out a road map.
2. The media would keep asking why not?
3. The Covid Recovery Group (in reality, hard right Tory MP’s who didn’t believe in lockdowns and safety restrictions in the first place) will keep going on and on and on.

 

[Rugrat]

The press conference isn’t really NEEDED at all at this precise (and early) moment. But in a world of political pressures it is held because:

1. Starmer might otherwise say that he would’ve set out a road map.
2. The media would keep asking why not?
3. The Covid Recovery Group (in reality, hard right Tory MP’s who didn’t believe in lockdowns and safety restrictions in the first place) will keep going on and on and on.

... and I dare him to tell us all what the metrics are .. LOL it's not a politicians way is it?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://amp.theguardian.com/educati...Twitter&utm_medium=&__twitter_impression=true

Whitty against plan for school openings.

 

[Billy the Fish]

... and I dare him to tell us all what the metrics are .. LOL it's not a politicians way is it?

Any metric is going to be arbitrary.

Others have said it, the government can't win this whatever they do. People on either side of the coin will accuse them of not following science when in reality there's no scientific consensus at all.

They're making it up as they go along and that's not a criticism, it's just the nature of this situation. It's in their interest to be vague.

 

[crodonilson]

At risk of being contradictory, you have never wholly trusted SAGE or been in favour of following SAGE advice. You have always wanted lockdown to be stricter and longer and harder than SAGE ever has.

Sage is made up of a lot of scientists who are far more talented and knowledgeable about this than your or I. They will all have varying opinions on such matters but the consensus has been from the beginning of the pandemic we've locked down too late and not harshly enough.

There is no doubt we've made massive strides in the past 6 weeks or so but that is due to one thing, lockdown. Without it we'd be in a dreadful place right now, but had we locked down similar to last March with school children at home, places of worship closed and garden centres and such like bit treated as essential (how on god's given earth can a garden centre in January be essential?) and one period each day for essential exercise to leave home strictly within your own household, cases would have fallen even faster. This lockdown has not really been a lockdown at all, if it was we'd be able to relax some very limited measures next month.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Sage is made up of a lot of scientists who are far more talented and knowledgeable about this than your or I. They will all have varying opinions on such matters but the consensus has been from the beginning of the pandemic we've locked down too late and not harshly enough.

There is no doubt we've made massive strides in the past 6 weeks or so but that is due to one thing, lockdown. Without it we'd be in a dreadful place right now, but had we locked down similar to last March with school children at home, places of worship closed and garden centres and such like bit treated as essential (how on god's given earth can a garden centre in January be essential?) and one period each day for essential exercise to leave home strictly within your own household, cases would have fallen even faster. This lockdown has not really been a lockdown at all, if it was we'd be able to relax some very limited measures next month.

The problem is that you have so convinced yourself that the government was late enforcing lockdown, that you have forgotten what actually happened. SAGE recommended on 18th March 2020 that schools should be closed "as soon as practicable" - they were closed on 20th March. (On 16th March, SAGE specifically said that they hadn't enough information as to whether it would be beneficial.)

It was on 23rd March 2020 that SAGE first said that a high level of social distancing was necessary. Lockdown was brought in on the same day. Pubs were already closed before then.

The government did what SAGE told them to do. If it turns out that SAGE was wrong, you can't blame the government, especially if what you want to blame them for is doing what SAGE told them to do rather than what you think SAGE should have told them to do.

As for leaving the house for one period each day for essential exercise - how do you measure essential exercise? Do you have an exact scale that determines how fit we are allowed to be? If you are 88 years old and it happens to be chucking it down at your appointed hour, is that it - you can't go for a walk? What if you have a job and your household hour is the wrong time? What if you are a single woman in an inner city and don't like solo exercise? What if it snows?

 

[crodonilson]

The problem is that you have so convinced yourself that the government was late enforcing lockdown, that you have forgotten what actually happened. SAGE recommended on 18th March 2020 that schools should be closed "as soon as practicable" - they were closed on 20th March. (On 16th March, SAGE specifically said that they hadn't enough information as to whether it would be beneficial.)

It was on 23rd March 2020 that SAGE first said that a high level of social distancing was necessary. Lockdown was brought in on the same day. Pubs were already closed before then.

The government did what SAGE told them to do. If it turns out that SAGE was wrong, you can't blame the government, especially if what you want to blame them for is doing what SAGE told them to do rather than what you think SAGE should have told them to do.

As for leaving the house for one period each day for essential exercise - how do you measure essential exercise? Do you have an exact scale that determines how fit we are allowed to be? If you are 88 years old and it happens to be chucking it down at your appointed hour, is that it - you can't go for a walk? What if you have a job and your household hour is the wrong time? What if you are a single woman in an inner city and don't like solo exercise? What if it snows?

Your point is typical of the press, trying to pick a fault and a hole in every argument, the spirit of the lockdown is very simple, stay at home unless you absolutely have to leave the house, if everyone would follow this we'd have plenty less cases than we already do and would be able to proceed forward, very cautiously next month instead of April as looks likely.

I don't think you were on the board at the beginning but I guarantee you were one of those claiming covid was like the flu and football matches with crowds and the Cheltenham festival should continue to go ahead. Let's not make the same mistakes again 12 months on, let's extend the lockdown, close our borders and get this under control once and for all before we consider what limited relaxation we can make.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Your point is typical of the press, trying to pick a fault and a hole in every argument, the spirit of the lockdown is very simple, stay at home unless you absolutely have to leave the house, if everyone would follow this we'd have plenty less cases than we already do and would be able to proceed forward, very cautiously next month instead of April as looks likely.

I don't think you were on the board at the beginning but I guarantee you were one of those claiming covid was like the flu and football matches with crowds and the Cheltenham festival should continue to go ahead. Let's not make the same mistakes again 12 months on, let's extend the lockdown, close our borders and get this under control once and for all before we consider what limited relaxation we can make.

Aren’t you trying to pick a hole in his argument...very much like the press? Oh and SAGE lol...have you had a look at its constituent parts...and as always has been said they are but just one part of the jigsaw

 

[dsr-burnley]

Your point is typical of the press, trying to pick a fault and a hole in every argument, the spirit of the lockdown is very simple, stay at home unless you absolutely have to leave the house, if everyone would follow this we'd have plenty less cases than we already do and would be able to proceed forward, very cautiously next month instead of April as looks likely.

I don't think you were on the board at the beginning but I guarantee you were one of those claiming covid was like the flu and football matches with crowds and the Cheltenham festival should continue to go ahead. Let's not make the same mistakes again 12 months on, let's extend the lockdown, close our borders and get this under control once and for all before we consider what limited relaxation we can make.

Even with lockdown and closed borders we will not get this virus under control for years, if ever. And we will certainly not get it under control "once and for all", not in either of our lifetimes.

With the vaccine and with a fair wind, we should be able to get this virus under control to the extent that few of us will die from it. And that will have to suffice. And if the vaccine doesn't work, then perhaps we will have to accept that we are none of us immortal and accept that there is a disease around that will kill up when we get old. And possibly even, some of us won't get old. It isn't a new concept.

 

[darkwolf666]

Even with lockdown and closed borders we will not get this virus under control for years, if ever. And we will certainly not get it under control "once and for all", not in either of our lifetimes.

With the vaccine and with a fair wind, we should be able to get this virus under control to the extent that few of us will die from it. And that will have to suffice. And if the vaccine doesn't work, then perhaps we will have to accept that we are none of us immortal and accept that there is a disease around that will kill up when we get old. And possibly even, some of us won't get old. It isn't a new concept.

Crodo has clearly painted himself into a corner that he is finding difficult to get out of.

However, you and I both full well know what he meant with his “once and for all” comment, yet you seem to find great pleasure picking him up on it and kicking him when he’s down.

Why don’t you try cutting him some slack, he is clearly worried about his health and future and that of his family - stop trying to belittle him, or maybe you should just **** off back to the Burnley forums, where your playground bullying might be more appreciated.

 

[Rugrat]

Crodo has clearly painted himself into a corner that he is finding difficult to get out of.

However, you and I both full well know what he meant with his “once and for all” comment, yet you seem to find great pleasure picking him up on it and kicking him when he’s down.

Why don’t you try cutting him some slack, he is clearly worried about his health and future and that of his family - stop trying to belittle him, or maybe you should just **** off back to the Burnley forums, where your playground bullying might be more appreciated.

That's harsh

 

[Eggman]

That's harsh

Very

 

[darkwolf666]

That's harsh

Sorry, it is what I felt, I have been reading Crodo's posts recently and he has quite clearly got himself into a dark place and doesn't need an interloper to the forums to constantly chip away at him.

Yes Crodo has become the harbinger of doom recently, but I think that's the way it's affecting a lot of people.

People have been very quick to jump on the "what about the mental health" side of things as a justification for easing lockdowns, yet are equally quick to dismiss and ridicule someone who is clearly showing early signs of problems

Like I said, a bit of understanding of his situation wouldn't go amiss...

If I upset someone who doesn't belong here, then tough!

 

[darkwolf666]

Very

See post above...

 

[dsr-burnley]

Crodo has clearly painted himself into a corner that he is finding difficult to get out of.

However, you and I both full well know what he meant with his “once and for all” comment, yet you seem to find great pleasure picking him up on it and kicking him when he’s down.

Why don’t you try cutting him some slack, he is clearly worried about his health and future and that of his family - stop trying to belittle him, or maybe you should just **** off back to the Burnley forums, where your playground bullying might be more appreciated.

Message noted and understood.

I'm sure a lot of us are worried about the health of our families. I certainly am.

 

[darkwolf666]

Message noted and understood.

I'm sure a lot of us are worried about the health of our families. I certainly am.

Me too, but you have to understand that while some can't wait to get back to "normal" there are many who are scared shitless by that prospect...

 

[dsr-burnley]

Me too, but you have to understand that while some can't wait to get back to "normal" there are many who are scared shitless by that prospect...

I will bear that in mind. Thank you.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Me too, but you have to understand that while some can't wait to get back to "normal" there are many who are scared shitless by that prospect...

I appreciate how much you've been through. Anyone who has followed your posts must have. And I have no desire to upset you with this, but I suspect I might. Nevertheless, I feel it needs to be said on this thread.

I've spent the vast majority of my working life working with specialist tools for insurers and have spent a lot of time with actuaries. Those who work in the Life Protection sector particular have the job of working out how statistically likely it is you will die or get a critical illness soon after taking out a policy. And, before Covid existed, those things tended to be age, BMI and history of critical disease.

It's no exaggeration to say that once you are vaccinated, all the current data points to you once again being at risk from the other thing that is scaring you, and not covid at all. From your age, BMI or underlying condition. Which is more or less where we were when things were normal.

Is that slight additional risk and worry, perhaps around 8% looking at the AZ data, really worth losing a whole generation of children's education, destroying the university system, culture, music and art, the hospitality and travel industry, lower league football, and risking our species becoming one that has forgotten how to adequately socialise?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Teaching unions seem to be gearing up for a fight over schools going back in March. Will be interesting to see if they refuse to go back.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Teaching unions seem to be gearing up for a fight over schools going back in March. Will be interesting to see if they refuse to go back.

Course, was always going to happen