Road rage video. Which side are you on - Team Bike or Team car?

[BadFish]

And park illegally. Change lanes/turn corners/etc. without indicating. Drive without wearing seatbelts. Make illegal turns. Drive through red lights. Drive while over the legal blood alcohol limit. Drive while texting/talking on phone/doing make up/eating. Drive up on pavements because the road is too narrow for two cars to pass, and both cars refuse to back up. Drive without insurance. Drive without MOT. Drive without tax. Drive without a licence. Drive in vehicles that are not road-worthy.

Yup and them things too

But remember only bike riders ball the law.

 

[£1.99]

Some good points made here!
http://www.streetfilms.org/moving-beyond-the-automobile/

 

[Garage_Doors]

Apart from those car drivers who exceed the speed limit of course.

Of course,but not whilst endangering pedestrians going through red lights.

 

[BadFish]

Of course,but not whilst endangering pedestrians going through red lights.

So you are saying that bike riders running a red light at a clear pedestrian crossing is worse that a car driver speeding?

Sorry But I cannot agree in the slightest.


Although the point you made (that I was disputing) was that most car drivers don't break the law.

I would argue that all car drivers have broken the law at some point. If you take Ackers list i don't think there is a single one of us who hand on heart has not at least one of things at least once.

 

[Acker79]

Of course,but not whilst endangering pedestrians going through red lights.

Between 1998 and 2007 in London, where cycle and pedestrian flows are high and signalled junctions ubiquitous, just 4% of pedestrian injuries due to red light jumping involved cycles; the other 96% involved motor vehicles​

(Freedom of Information (FoI) request made by CTC in 2008.) http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/pedestriansbrf.pdf

 

[Garage_Doors]

So you are saying that bike riders running a red light at a clear pedestrian crossing is worse that a car driver speeding?

Sorry But I cannot agree in the slightest.


Although the point you made (that I was disputing) was that most car drivers don't break the law.

I would argue that all car drivers have broken the law at some point. If you take Ackers list i don't think there is a single one of us who hand on heart has not at least one of things at least once.

I dont disagree with anything you have said, car drivers break all sort of traffic laws "sometimes" ,they will speed, they will use their phone they will use the wrong lane, they will drive in bus lanes but not persitantly where as the cyclist that jump red lights will continuously jump red lights to the point they don't even look at them or even register that it also applies to them.
A driver speeding at 35 in 30, 70 in a 60 or 80 in a 70 is a lot less dangerous than a cyclist riding through a red light at a pedestrian crossing.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Between 1998 and 2007 in London, where cycle and pedestrian flows are high and signalled junctions ubiquitous, just 4% of pedestrian injuries due to red light jumping involved cycles; the other 96% involved motor vehicles​

(Freedom of Information (FoI) request made by CTC in 2008.) http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/pedestriansbrf.pdf

I would argue the problem of cyclist srunning red lights has grown significantly since 2007

 

[Acker79]

I would argue the problem of cyclist srunning red lights has grown significantly since 2007

Of course you would.


Unfortunately, the latest respectable figures figures I can currently find are for 2007 from the transport of london, showing around 16% of cyclists jumping lights (varies from site to site and am to pm, male to female, but I think the average is 16%) http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf.

A questionable* survey from 2012 showed 13.7% of respondents admitted to driving through red lights "regularly" or "sometimes". *Questionable because it relies on self-submission, because it was an optional response survey from a motoring site and so is open to motorists who never cycle replying to skew figures (the 2007 study was by observation, not by people completing a survey monkey questionnaire).


I disagree with your assertion that a cyclist going through a red light is more dangerous than a speeding car.

Ironwit, in his ironically titled blog, quotes from Transport for London statistics that shows the following.

In a study of the figures from 1998 to 2007, precisely 0 deaths of pedestrians were caused by cyclists jumping red lights. In the shorter period of 2001 to 2005, 7 deaths of pedestrians were caused by car drivers jumping red lights.

The CTC on page 4 of their Cyclists’ behaviour and the Law document gives considerably more damning generic statistics about pedestrian casualties for 2001-2010.

Pedestrians killed by CAR 3722 and by CYCLE 22
Pedestrians seriously injured by CAR 50179 and by CYCLE 510
​

So, 100 times more serious injuries are caused by drivers than cyclists and 170 times more death.

Whilst we are here, we might as well look at that hoary chestnut of the danger of cyclists on pavements. On page 8 of the same report, the injury statistics for London pavements for 2001-05 are as follows.

Pedestrians killed by CAR 17 and by CYCLE 0
Pedestrians seriously injured by CAR 387 and by CYCLE 40
Pedestrians slightly injured by CAR 1793 and by CYCLE 52​

So, even on the pavement pedestrians are over 40 times more likely to be injured or killed by a driver than a cyclist.​

http://radwagon.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/red-light-jumping-vs-speeding-cars.html

and

Speed is one of the main factors in fatal road accidents

In 2011, 3,267 people were killed or seriously injured in crashes where speed was a factor

The risk of death is approximately four times higher when a pedestrian is hit at 40mph than at 30mph​

http://think.direct.gov.uk/speed.html

Red light jumping cyclist related deaths over a ten year period: 0
Speeding drivers related deaths over one year: 3,267

 

[BadFish]

I dont disagree with anything you have said, car drivers break all sort of traffic laws "sometimes" ,they will speed, they will use their phone they will use the wrong lane, they will drive in bus lanes but not persitantly where as the cyclist that jump red lights will continuously jump red lights to the point they don't even look at them or even register that it also applies to them.
A driver speeding at 35 in 30, 70 in a 60 or 80 in a 70 is a lot less dangerous than a cyclist riding through a red light at a pedestrian crossing.

Not sure if you can prove what you have written here but i would suggest that it is bobbins.

The rest is all addressed comprehensively by Acker's post above.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Not sure if you can prove what you have written here but i would suggest that it is bobbins.

The rest is all addressed comprehensively by Acker's post above.

Correct. It was laughable really.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I'd love to see a copper booking all the bikes that A/ fly through red lights and B/ have no lights on the bike in the evening and wear dark clothes.

Police used to nick people for wearing loud shirts in built up areas, according to the Not The Nine O'Clock News, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

As a cyclist and a car driver here is what I want.

I am happy to pay the government £10-£20 a year to ride my bicycle on the roads. I already pay road tax for my car, but if it will stop some silly drivers telling cyclists to pay for road tax then so be it. For the bicycle road tax that I pay I would like the government to create a network of cycle paths and cycle lanes in this country that keeps cyclists away from the cars. Car drivers who hate cyclists must accept and not get upset when new cycle lanes that are introduced end up making your roads slower. Cyclists are not going away, in fact I predict millions more people to get on their bike simply because at peak times the roads are just becoming too congested.

 

[seagully]

as a cyclist and a car driver here is what i want.

I am happy to pay the government £10-£20 a year to ride my bicycle on the roads. I already pay road tax for my car, but if it will stop some silly drivers telling cyclists to pay for road tax then so be it. For the bicycle road tax that i pay i would like the government to create a network of cycle paths and cycle lanes in this country that keeps cyclists away from the cars. Car drivers who hate cyclists must accept and not get upset when new cycle lanes that are introduced end up making your roads slower. Cyclists are not going away, in fact i predict millions more people to get on their bike simply because at peak times the roads are just becoming too congested.

100% this

The long and short of the argument is simply this:

SOME cyclists are twats. SOME drivers are twats. A **** is a **** whether they cycle, drive a car or both.

 

[Acker79]

As a cyclist and a car driver here is what I want.

I am happy to pay the government £10-£20 a year to ride my bicycle on the roads. I already pay road tax for my car, but if it will stop some silly drivers telling cyclists to pay for road tax then so be it. For the bicycle road tax that I pay I would like the government to create a network of cycle paths and cycle lanes in this country that keeps cyclists away from the cars. Car drivers who hate cyclists must accept and not get upset when new cycle lanes that are introduced end up making your roads slower. Cyclists are not going away, in fact I predict millions more people to get on their bike simply because at peak times the roads are just becoming too congested.

While I was looking up the statistics last night I saw one report that said because more drivers are cycling, cyclists are more likely to have paid VED (aka road tax) than drivers. I'll see if I can find that report later and post it.

 

[Triggaaar]

It isn't clear in the video, but the car runs over the cyclists foot.

Where do you get that idea from? I watched the car drive off again, there's no indication the cylcist is run over and he doesn't scream or anything.

Team Bike.

The anti-bike brigade go on and on about cyclists disobeying rules.

A fair number of cyclists don't stop at lights, and a fair number of car drivers don't look out for cyclists when turning out of a junction or onto a roundabout etc. Let's leave that and just deal with this incident.

An apparently law abiding cyclist points out the fault of the driver and he gets lamped for it?

Er, no, that's not what happened. The driver did very little wrong in going into the cycle box before pulling away at the lights. It was probably safer to go then, than to try and overtake the cyclist one by one as he drove along. Still, the cyclist got to make his complaint, which the driver ignored. That should have been the end.

The cyclist got lamped for chasing him and aggressively screaming '****ing prick' through his window. Got what he deserved (IMO).

 

[teaboy]

Anyone who thinks a bike going through a red light causes the same danger to pedestrians as a car doing the same should've worked harder at school. F=MA.

 

[Husty]

Anyone who thinks a bike going through a red light causes the same danger to pedestrians as a car doing the same should've worked harder at school. F=MA.

Makes it NO less acceptable.

 

[Acker79]

While I was looking up the statistics last night I saw one report that said because more drivers are cycling, cyclists are more likely to have paid VED (aka road tax) than drivers. I'll see if I can find that report later and post it.

https://www.eta.co.uk/2013/05/24/more-cyclists-pay-road-tax-than-car-drivers/

It's 83% of cyclists have access to a car and pay vehicles excise duty. 82% of the population as a whole pay VED. So it's close, how important that 1% difference is depends on the number of respondents (1% of 100 is 1 person, negligible, 1% of 100,000 is 1,000 which is more significant) but it was revealed in a house of commons question and answer session so exact details unknown. However, even if the difference is negligible, it shows that cyclists are just as likely to pay "road tax" as anyone.

 

[symyjym]

With regard to cyclists going through a pelican crossing light that has just changed red, I was originally refering to what happened on this video at 44 seconds.



What they did by the law of the road was technically wrong, however in this instance it was perfectly safe.

There were no pedestrians attempting to cross on the side where the bikes were riding.

Under these circumstances I do not have a problem with the cyclists because their actions were not dangerous.

I am not a cyclist but I think fair play to them because they rely on momentum, and stop starting for a cyclist is more of a pain than for someone sitting in a car pressing peddles.

As a car driver I would always stop and would never jump lights.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Team Car are pleased to announce the signing of this CJTC

AGOSTINELLI: BILLIONAIRE LET OFF COKE CHARGE BECAUSE IT BELONGED TO MYSTERY MAN

cnl_massimo_agostinelli_web.jpgCENTRAL LONDON

A billionaire's son has avoided punishment for the cocaine found on the floor of his car when he jumped traffic lights.

Massimo Agostinelli, 26, whose father Robert Agostinelli, 60, once tried to buy Liverpool FC, sped through an amber light in his girlfriend's black Mercedes Benz.

Two officers pulled him over on Sumner Place, South Kensington, west London, just after 6pm on 30 January and found Agostinelli had been disqualified from driving until June 2014.

He was taken to Wandsworth Police station and police found a blue biscuit wrapper containing cocaine on the passenger side floor of the Mercedes. - See more at: http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/#sthash.cxWh7l8h.dpuf