[Football] Reports of dangerous over crowding and crushing at Hillsborough

[Justice]

Work for the Sun by any chance?

‘work for the sun’? Really? Just of the opinion that football fans are not always perfectly behaved. Clearly, amazingly, your experience is different

Well you did start pointing fingers at football fans sharpish in this case. A few others jumped to conclusions to which is disappointing without all the facts from the report

 

[Milano]

I know we aren't supposed to say things like this when it comes this type of subject, but sometimes we have to accept that not everything is the fault of stewarding, the Police or even the age of the ground. Sometimes the 'misconduct' of football fans is the problem.

Oh f***ing hell. You’re right, we’re not supposed to because it’s horse shit. The English football world should have come together in the early 90s and demolished that stand. Nothing has changed, the tunnel has not been rebuilt, it was always 2 separate tiers, the fact it’s seating now makes the potential for a crush in the tunnel actually greater, the majority of Liverpool fans were killed in the tunnel not the terrace. Disgrace that thing is still standing.

 

[beorhthelm]

From this photo it does look rather concerning. According to Newcastle fans, they were filtered into the middle entrance to the stand rather than being spread out across the other entrances to the stand. Seen reports of people being stuck in the tunnel for over 15 minutes without steward assistance on where people should be going.

You can see a large concentration of people in the middle of the stand.

i cant work out why fans themselves haven't dispered across the stand more. from this and other pictures there's nothing or no one to stop them, with dozens standing where the centre aisle is. all very peculiar.

 

[TottonSeagull]

I am amazed that the Lepping Lane end wasn’t demolished and rebuilt after the 1989 disaster!

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I believe the upper and lower tiers are now entirely seperate, meaning fans may have deliberately gone to the wrong area. The tunnel has been completely rebuilt, and it is obviously an all seated area now. I think some people are getting their knickers in a twist a bit too rapidly, although Hillsborough is a relic which should have been redeveloped by now.

Seen The Albion at Hillsborough and upper tier Leppings Lane end, maybe others see it differently but it simply should have been demolished and completely rebuilt after that tragic day.

 

[Flagship]

Its because of the two great big statntions that restrict the view. The stand should be modernised.

 

[Albion my Albion]

The reports on the radio at the weekend weren't anything to do with inside the stadium, but access to the away end through a tight tunnel.

That's what she said.

 

[abc]

Well you did start pointing fingers at football fans sharpish in this case. A few others jumped to conclusions to which is disappointing without all the facts from the report

 

[Tfitz12]

i cant work out why fans themselves haven't dispered across the stand more. from this and other pictures there's nothing or no one to stop them, with dozens standing where the centre aisle is. all very peculiar.

It's due to the way in which people are ushered in the lower tier. If they are seperated then the stand feeds properly, if not then there is a surge into the middle.

The mass amount that arrive at kick off just makes this worse.

 

[abc]

Oh f***ing hell. You’re right, we’re not supposed to because it’s horse shit. The English football world should have come together in the early 90s and demolished that stand. Nothing has changed, the tunnel has not been rebuilt, it was always 2 separate tiers, the fact it’s seating now makes the potential for a crush in the tunnel actually greater, the majority of Liverpool fans were killed in the tunnel not the terrace. Disgrace that thing is still standing

Totally agree (except for the horseshit bit) and I was certainly not making any overt observation about the Hillsborough tragedy in my comment. Merely that whenever there is a concern about or incident in a football crowd, it is wrong to just assume that the stewards, police etc are at fault because sometimes, and we have all witnessed or been caught up in this, fans can be at fault to. Yes, grounds should be fundamentally safe in all respects but no safety plan or design can cover every eventuality if some or a large mass of people 'misbehave' in the same idiotic or dangerous, in the same way that driving will never be entirely safe due to the idiot driver under the influence.

 

[abc]

Well you did start pointing fingers at football fans sharpish in this case. A few others jumped to conclusions to which is disappointing without all the facts from the report

I didn't point a finger, just suggesting other possibilities for the sake of balance, as have others. No desire to argue with you, but the sun jibe is pretty insulting and uncalled for (IMHO)

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I think it shows how poor these old grounds are. There should be far more restriction on old grounds by the authorities. Elland Rd, Old Trafford, Goodison are all death traps. Goodison, the away stand is wooden FFS. Fulham's stand is grade two listed. It should be allowed to be taken down, rebuilt at the Wealden museum and a facility fit for purpose, built.

 

[portlock seagull]

Forget the Palace connection, Simon Jordan made a very good point when this broke on Talk Sport the other, clearly historically this will always be an emotive issue, but this was an all ticket match, Wednesday haven’t sold more tickets than seats?

This is more about Newcastle fans choosing to go in the lower tier when they’ve seats in the Upper Tier.

And then that in turn is down to stewards, not top of pay grade, just being overrun with people sitting in the incorrect seats.

Sorry the Toon Army milking this a bit, and obviously once the word Hillsborough is thrown into a safety debate, the collective ears of football prick up.

This. This. And this again. Mention Hillsborough and crowding and regardless of whether there was or wasn’t you’ve already set so many hares running it’s impossible to control. The tone of the conversation is immediately bias.

What appears to have happened here is yet again and a worry trend of late is irresponsible people (at concerts, football clubs and even shopping districts) often rushing or ignoring controls and causing problems as a result.

Question I’d be asking is why has it only happened post 1989 at Hillsborough just for this match? Surely Hillsborough, and Leppings Lane end at that, is the safest in the country (providing people behave, same as anywhere, because are limits to what stewarding etc can do e.g. ‘beware of the Cliff’ signs don’t stop some people from falling off)

 

[Justice]

It's due to the way in which people are ushered in the lower tier. If they are seperated then the stand feeds properly, if not then there is a surge into the middle.

The mass amount that arrive at kick off just makes this worse.

I was reading lots of seats had been covered with that netting which the fans had to remove themselves to create space obviously wasn’t there so can’t confirm this.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think it shows how poor these old grounds are. There should be far more restriction on old grounds by the authorities. Elland Rd, Old Trafford, Goodison are all death traps. Goodison, the away stand is wooden FFS. Fulham's stand is grade two listed. It should be allowed to be taken down, rebuilt at the Wealden museum and a facility fit for purpose, built.

Loftus Road is a death trap. The concourse is so narrow, getting out is a nightmare.

 

[Justice]

Loftus Road is a death trap. The concourse is so narrow, getting out is a nightmare.

The OB are well over the top for visiting fans there. We got our own tube train once to and from the ground.

 

[portlock seagull]

I think it shows how poor these old grounds are. There should be far more restriction on old grounds by the authorities. Elland Rd, Old Trafford, Goodison are all death traps. Goodison, the away stand is wooden FFS. Fulham's stand is grade two listed. It should be allowed to be taken down, rebuilt at the Wealden museum and a facility fit for purpose, built.

If we start with no where’s 100% safe, then I think you have a point.

But the greater point is everything is risk assessed. To legal standard set by independent authorities. These standards are incredibly high here. In the age of Twitter storms It’s easy to throw mud at anyone attempting to mount a defence because as others and I have said, you only need to scream Hillsborough and crush and you’ve practically shut down all reasonable debate and no bias before the tea and biscuits have been served. As is happening now. But Citing back to a tragedy last century pre revolutionary change it brought about to support accusations today isn’t fair or especially creditable today’s context. Too emotive. Btw, not saying you’ve done any of that, it’s just a general comment. Would further add though that saying 3 older grounds are death traps just isn’t true. It might be your opinion, but it’s not considered opinion. Nor is there any supporting evidence.

 

[portlock seagull]

Loftus Road is a death trap. The concourse is so narrow, getting out is a nightmare.

Out of date perhaps, but even that’s a matter of opinion. One of the coldest away days experienced Boxing Day in the noughties. And they had no hot drinks because boiler broken…

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Out of date perhaps, but even that’s a matter of opinion. One of the coldest away days experienced Boxing Day in the noughties. And they had no hot drinks because boiler broken…

No, not out of date. It is very narrow, and we could only shuffle out. That is a death trap, if the stand needed to be evacuated quickly.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

If we start with no where’s 100% safe, then I think you have a point.

But the greater point is everything is risk assessed. To legal standard set by independent authorities. These standards are incredibly high here. In the age of Twitter storms It’s easy to throw mud at anyone attempting to mount a defence because as others and I have said, you only need to scream Hillsborough and crush and you’ve practically shut down all reasonable debate and no bias before the tea and biscuits have been served. As is happening now. But Citing back to a tragedy last century pre revolutionary change it brought about to support accusations today isn’t fair or especially creditable today’s context. Too emotive. Btw, not saying you’ve done any of that, it’s just a general comment. Would further add though that saying 3 older grounds are death traps just isn’t true. It might be your opinion, but it’s not considered opinion. Nor is there any supporting evidence.

I don't disagree but blimey anyone attempting to navigate the concourse or should we say corridor at many of these old grounds, know it can be a horrible experience for many.

I've seen people panic in the crushes and it can easily put people off. Many of us would have visited many of the newer grounds and even though some are souless they are safe in and around.