Religious question?

[piersa]

I believe we would have got a long a lot better and gone a LOT further without religion.

You're political beliefs are highly questionable but you make a lot of sense on this issue.

 

[pastafarian]

A question for atheists.

Why is there something and not nothing?

something to ponder

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208130038.htm

New theoretical research suggests that under just the right conditions -- which involve an ultra-high-intensity laser beam and a two-mile-long particle accelerator -- it could be possible to create something out of nothing.
Credit: iStockphoto/Evgeny Kuklev

Under just the right conditions -- which involve an ultra-high-intensity laser beam and a two-mile-long particle accelerator -- it could be possible to create something out of nothing, according to University of Michigan researchers.

The scientists and engineers have developed new equations that show how a high-energy electron beam combined with an intense laser pulse could rip apart a vacuum into its fundamental matter and antimatter components, and set off a cascade of events that generates additional pairs of particles and antiparticles.

"We can now calculate how, from a single electron, several hundred particles can be produced. We believe this happens in nature near pulsars and neutron stars," said Igor Sokolov, an engineering research scientist who conducted this research along with associate research scientist John Nees, emeritus electrical engineering professor Gerard Mourou and their colleagues in France.

At the heart of this work is the idea that a vacuum is not exactly nothing.

"It is better to say, following theoretical physicist Paul Dirac, that a vacuum, or nothing, is the combination of matter and antimatter -- particles and antiparticles.Their density is tremendous, but we cannot perceive any of them because their observable effects entirely cancel each other out," Sokolov said.

Matter and antimatter destroy each other when they come into contact under normal conditions.

"But in a strong electromagnetic field, this annihilation, which is typically a sink mechanism, can be the source of new particles," Nees said, "In the course of the annihilation, gamma photons appear, which can produce additional electrons and positrons."

A gamma photon is a high-energy particle of light. A positron is an anti-electron, a mirror-image particle with the same properties as an electron, but an opposite, positive charge.

The researchers describe this work as a theoretical breakthrough, and a "qualitative jump in theory."

An experiment in the late '90s managed to generate from a vacuum gamma photons and an occasional electron-positron pair. These new equations take this work a step farther to model how a strong laser field could promote the creation of more particles than were initially injected into an experiment through a particle accelerator.

"If the electron has a capability to become three particles within a very short time, this means it's not an electron any longer," Sokolov said. "The theory of the electron is based on the fact that it will be an electron forever. But in our calculations, each of the charged particles becomes a combination of three particles plus some number of photons."

The researchers have developed a tool to put their equations into practice in the future on a very small scale using the HERCULES laser at U-M. To test their theory's full potential, a HERCULES-type laser would have to be built at a particle accelerator such as the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory at Stanford University. Such infrastructure is not currently planned.

This work could potentially have applications in inertial confinement fusion, which could produce cleaner energy from nuclear fusion reactions, the researchers say.

To Sokolov, it's fascinating from a philosophical perspective.

"The basic question what is a vacuum, and what is nothing, goes beyond science," he said. "It's embedded deeply in the base not only of theoretical physics, but of our philosophical perception of everything -- of reality, of life, even the religious question of could the world have come from nothing."

 

[boik]

Absolute rubbish...which evidence are you referring to? many religious people believe in evolution as well ...

So, if they believe in evolution, then surely they must then believe that the bible is a load of lies as it categorically states that evolution didn't happen? And if that is the case, then how can they believe in the resurrection and all of the other things in the bible that their faith is based upon? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nibble]

A Christian believing in evolution is not a Christian. They may believe they are. They're not. They, by the very definition of Christianity, cannot be Christian. It's just like all modern religion, cherry picking the bits you like, discarding those that don't fit in your life. All very disingenuous.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

A Christian believing in evolution is not a Christian.

please expand on this wise statement

 

[Nibble]

please expand on this wise statement

I did expand on it. Right after the above sentence you picked out of my post.

 

[boik]

So what do christians believe in, if not the bible?

 

[Mattywerewolf]

Ever heard of the word 'allegory'. Narrow minded often can't see past 100% literal interpretation of a text....But many eminent scientists can and do.

So, for example, do all Christians believe that the Earth was created in 6 days (as humans define them). No. Does that mean you can't be a Christian. No. Does this make the rest of the Bible wrong. No. Does 'faith' by definition require you to believe in things you can't prove. Yes.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ever heard of the word 'allegory'. Narrow minded often can't see past 100% literal interpretation of a text....But many eminent scientists can and do.

So, for example, do all Christians believe that the Earth was created in 6 days (as humans define them). No. Does that mean you can't be a Christian. No. Does this make the rest of the Bible wrong. No. Does 'faith' by definition require you to believe in things you can't prove. Yes.

The classic pick and choosing of which bits of a religion you fancy. It's why even if the world was all one religion, we'd still have as many religious conflicts as despite being the same religion, we'd all believe different bits of it were the right bits to follow.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

A Christian believing in evolution is not a Christian. They may believe they are. They're not. They, by the very definition of Christianity, cannot be Christian. It's just like all modern religion, cherry picking the bits you like, discarding those that don't fit in your life. All very disingenuous.

please expand on this wise statement

I did expand on it. Right after the above sentence you picked out of my post.

Ok this time I include your full quote which started with my quote. Where 'above the sentence i picked' did you explain why evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive? You love a bold statement but never back anything up. Can you also define Christianity since this seems to hold the crux of your argument....?

 

[Mattywerewolf]

I did expand on it. Right after the above sentence you picked out of my post.

please expand on this wise statement

A Christian believing in evolution is not a Christian. They may believe they are. They're not. They, by the very definition of Christianity, cannot be Christian. It's just like all modern religion, cherry picking the bits you like, discarding those that don't fit in your life. All very disingenuous.

The classic pick and choosing of which bits of a religion you fancy. It's why even if the world was all one religion, we'd still have as many religious conflicts as despite being the same religion, we'd all believe different bits of it were the right bits to follow.

Clearly not what i said. Perhaps you haven't checked the definition of allegory. Christians believe that God created the Earth....whether this was in 6 days or through the evolutionary process is not core to the belief...But carry on. If you think all Christians either have to 100% literally believe the text in the Bible, and that none of it was written allegorically, then the conversation ends

 

[boik]

Ever heard of the word 'allegory'. Narrow minded often can't see past 100% literal interpretation of a text....But many eminent scientists can and do.

Yep, I'm fine with what an allegory is. So how do you know which bits are allegorical and which bits are "factual". Or are you saying that the bible is irrelevant? It seems to be something that it vitally important to christians, apart from the bits which have been proved to be wrong. Or is religion just something that you make up to suit yourself?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Clearly not what i said. Perhaps you haven't checked the definition of allegory. Christians believe that God created the Earth....whether this was in 6 days or through the evolutionary process is not core to the belief...But carry on. If you think all Christians either have to 100% literally believe the text in the Bible, and that none of it was written allegorically, then the conversation ends

Don't worry, I am 100% sure that religion is one massive allegory! It's just a shame so many people do take so much of it literally.

 

[One Love]

Probably one of the dumbest things ever to have been typed onto this message board

Ahem, no, this one definitely was.

Of course you can know God doesn't exist. I know he doesn't exist. Sure, he MAY do but he DOESN'T. Just as my goldfish MAY dress in a cape and fightt crime when I'm asleep. He MAY do , but he DOESNT.

God doesn't exist. Get over it.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

So how do you know which bits are allegorical and which bits are "factual". Or are you saying that the bible is irrelevant? It seems to be something that it vitally important to Christians, apart from the bits which have been proved to be wrong. Or is religion just something that you make up to suit yourself?

Allegory is used as a means of explaining a hidden meaning. The usage of such language does not detract from the message just because it uses 6 days to describe a process that took longer. This is not 'picking and choosing', and doesn't make the bible any less relevant. What is allegory and what isn't explains the many different branches of Christianity.

 

[boik]

Allegory is used as a means of explaining a hidden meaning. The usage of such language does not detract from the message just because it uses 6 days to describe a process that took longer. This is not 'picking and choosing', and doesn't make the bible any less relevant. What is allegory and what isn't explains the many different branches of Christianity.

I still know what allegory is! So the bible isn't irrelevant, it shows you how to think and live based on stories that are made up? Don't a lot of these stories describe the life of Jesus, who is one of the people that christians worship. or have you decided that those bits weren't made up, and if so, how did you (sorry I always mean christians rather than you personally) decide that those bits weren't an allegory?

 

[Nibble]

Ok this time I include your full quote which started with my quote. Where 'above the sentence i picked' did you explain why evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive? You love a bold statement but never back anything up. Can you also define Christianity since this seems to hold the crux of your argument....?

Uhm, do we really have to go over this? Really!? Okay, I'll make it as simple as I can:

Christian Belief: God created the Earth and the universe and everything in it. End of. Absolute creationism.

It is one of the foundations of Christianity. In order to be a true Christian, you have to believe this. In believing this you rule out the possibility of evolution. If you do not rule out evolution you are not a true Christian.

Seriously man, you can't really be this stupid? You can agree or disagree with me but don't pretend you don't understand what I'm saying.

 

[Nibble]

Ahem, no, this one definitely was.

So you're willing to accept someone's blind faith in God but you are not willing to accept someone's blind faith that there definitely isn't a God? That's kinda dumb.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

Uhm, do we really have to go over this? Really!? Okay, I'll make it as simple as I can:

Christian Belief: God created the Earth and the universe and everything in it. End of. Absolute creationism.

It is one of the foundations of Christianity. In order to be a true Christian, you have to believe this. In believing this you rule out the possibility of evolution. If you do not rule out evolution you are not a true Christian.

Seriously man, you can't really be this stupid? You can agree or disagree with me but don't pretend you don't understand what I'm saying.

Without getting personal as you seem to need to when your shouting doesn't work....

I suggest you look up the definition of Christianity in a dictionary....it is not what you say, although Christians do believe God created the Earth, Universe and everything in it and this doesn't prevent them also believing in the evolutionary process. That is clearly not the definition of Christianity and a little naive to think it is. Clearly an omnipotent power could create the universe in many ways, be that starting from a big bang with evolution or in literally 6 Earth days if that's what someone chooses to believe. And yes, obviously i do disagree with you, but more with you arrogant 'I am right FACT' attitude. I tried to engage in a sensible discussion but my view is clear, so is yours. I will leave it there.

 

[Nibble]

Without getting personal as you seem to need to when your shouting doesn't work....

I suggest you look up the definition of Christianity in a dictionary....it is not what you say, although Christians do believe God created the Earth, Universe and everything in it and this doesn't prevent them also believing in the evolutionary process. That is clearly not the definition of Christianity and a little naive to think it is. Clearly an omnipotent power could create the universe in many ways, be that starting from a big bang with evolution or in literally 6 Earth days if that's what someone chooses to believe. And yes, obviously i do disagree with you, but more with you arrogant 'I am right FACT' attitude. I tried to engage in a sensible discussion but my view is clear, so is yours. I will leave it there.

Shouting? How odd.

Anyway, how very convenient for the Christians to suddenly agree that evolution exists as soon as science proves it. I don't hear much description of evolution in the bible.
Oh well, trying to get someone to explain why and what they believe is fruitless as the blind faith thing is always the get out clause. I find it pathetic but it'll never be resolved as long as there are morons out there believing in God.