[Albion] Referee / VAR

[Uh_huh_him]

It's rare that the on-field ref sticks with his original decision, but it does happen.

Went in our favour at Villa Park during the pandemic when Grealish tried to win a penalty right at the end, the ref went "Jog on!" only for the VAR to call him and get him to check the monitor.

Review then takes place, only for the ref to realise (a) it was Sock Boy and therefore almost certainly a dive and (b) the Albion defender (whoever it was: I forget now) had got a minuscule touch on the ball prior to lightly brushing his lower leg.

I think that may not have been sockboy.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was March who was defending.
The player was already in mid-air when the challenge came in and March got the ball anyway.
Villa twitter still refer back to this as an injustice

the thing I remember most , it was during lockdown and the whole game was punctuating by screams of pain, every time a Villa player was tackled.
Sockboy got Lamptey sent off, by coordinated scream/dive after an innocuous challenge

 

[keaton]

I think that may not have been sockboy.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was March who was defending.
The player was already in mid-air when the challenge came in and March got the ball anyway.
Villa twitter still refer back to this as an injustice

the thing I remember most , it was during lockdown and the whole game was punctuating by screams of pain, every time a Villa player was tackled.
Sockboy got Lamptey sent off, by coordinated scream/dive after an innocuous challenge

As an aside I did enjoy Villa fans getting annoyed at Grealish's theatrics last night. Must have turned into a bit of a diver since left them

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Wissa had two arms around Dunk. However, he hadn’t fouled him before Dunk threw him off with his arms. No penalty was the right decision.

So is it ok to grab hold of someone? If that happened anywhere else on the pitch it’s free kick.

 

[tedebear]

I would like both VAR and referees/linesman to be audible (in the case of the ref) and we see what they are analysing (in the case of VAR) as in cricket and rugby. It would make them so much more accountable and remove alot of our assuming....Football seems to be one of the only professional sports where the rules are applied when they suit, rather than all the time, so I'd like to understand why certain rules are ignored and why some are applied. Its infuriating...

In yesterdays example, I'd like to understand whether they ignored the orignal monkey hold Dunk was in, and why he originally fouled...then he was fouled again. I don't think it was a penalty to be completely honest, but would just like to understand what they looked at and made the decision based on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just got home and seen the "pen" for the first time. Clearly I'm in the minority but it's a pen. Wissa fouls Dunk first, then Dunk fouls Wissa then Wissa fouls Dunk. Bottom line is Wissa prevented Dunk from getting to the header by fouling him. And our top ref Michael Oliver on VAR agreed. That said, I'm not especially sure I want VAR getting involved in that sort of subjective decision - especially given the stuff they haven't got involved with recently - so I'm not that fussed but I certainly don't agree that Dunk fouls first.

How did Wissa foul Dunk first? He was marking him, in the usual way that players mark players in the box i.e. a bit 'intimate' and with their arms out, then Dunk slung him out the way. Can anyone find/post a clip of the incident?

 

[sully]

How did Wissa foul Dunk first? He was marking him, in the usual way that players mark players in the box i.e. a bit 'intimate' and with their arms out, then Dunk slung him out the way. Can anyone find/post a clip of the incident?

I’d always thought that once the ball is in play, they can’t just hold each other. Wissa has no interest in where the ball is, just in preventing Dunk from moving. I can’t see how it isn’t a foul by Wissa. It’s not American Football where it seems you can take out anyone anywhere on the pitch. As has been said earlier in this thread, anywhere else on the pitch, Wissa is fouling Dunk by blocking him.

 

[tedebear]

How did Wissa foul Dunk first? He was marking him, in the usual way that players mark players in the box i.e. a bit 'intimate' and with their arms out, then Dunk slung him out the way. Can anyone find/post a clip of the incident?

About 1:21 here:

Brentford 0-0 Brighton: Visitors denied penalty as ref overrules VAR review in stalemate

Report and free match highlights as referee Andy Madley overrules VAR review to deny Brighton a penalty in goalless draw at Brentford; Bees move six points above drop zone, while Seagulls remain ninth, still behind Newcastle and West Ham

www.skysports.com

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’d always thought that once the ball is in play, they can’t just hold each other. Wissa has no interest in where the ball is, just in preventing Dunk from moving. I can’t see how it isn’t a foul by Wissa. It’s not American Football where it seems you can take out anyone anywhere on the pitch. As has been said earlier in this thread, anywhere else on the pitch, Wissa is fouling Dunk by blocking him.

I get your point but
1) We do not typically see this type of activity anywhere else on the pitch, it's usally just a corner freekick thing.
2) This type of very intimate arms out marking goes on week in, week out and in every game and is, right or wrong, a reasonably accepted part of the game. We can debate the legitimacy and tolerance of it but this is a different discussion. If Wissa was deemed to have fouled Dunk then there should also be quite a lot of other fouls/pens on both sides as well.

I would like to see the incident again as this is all from my memory last night and only 2 replays.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

About 1:21 here:

Brentford 0-0 Brighton: Visitors denied penalty as ref overrules VAR review in stalemate

Report and free match highlights as referee Andy Madley overrules VAR review to deny Brighton a penalty in goalless draw at Brentford; Bees move six points above drop zone, while Seagulls remain ninth, still behind Newcastle and West Ham

www.skysports.com

Boooo. This is geo-blocked for me.

 

[tedebear]

Boooo. This is geo-blocked for me.

Shame, Wissa is clearly impeding Dunk (edited to add NOT with his arms out, his arms are clearly around him). Dunk has a brain fart and tried to fling him away (foul one says the ref), Wissa is hanging on for dear life (foul two and we're all evens says the ref)...and Dunk goes down...Thats my thinking...

 

[amexer]

Very good to see a ref stick with decision and go against VAR

 

[CheeseRolls]

Wissa had two arms around Dunk. However, he hadn’t fouled him before Dunk threw him off with his arms. No penalty was the right decision.

Is right but somehow completely wrong. Just like rugby union has completely rendered the scrum pointless, by fiddling with the rules, football has screwed up corners badly.

The current intepretation that the game isn't live before the corner is taken and you can pretty much do what you like, is just nonsense. Wissa isn't trying to hold a position to compete for the ball. The rule may be intepreted correctly, but I don't accept that the rule is good for football.

As a side note, second to Hey Jude in my petty list of gripes, is placing the ball outside the D to take a corner. There is ZERO advantage to doing this and the assistant referee is forced to micro inspect to see if the ball is hovering above the line, rather than focussing on the jostling in the penalty area. Even if the rule isn't changed I would personally like to ask Pascal Gross to stop arsing around with this pointless routine and just take a proper corner!

 

[nickjhs]

Unfortunately for us it was the right call. They both fouled each other, Dunk first. I don't WANT to see refs always accede to the VAR muppets.

Can you explain to me how giving someone a bear hug in the penalty area is not a foul? Dunk threw him off because he was fouling him

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Can you explain to me how giving someone a bear hug in the penalty area is not a foul? Dunk threw him off because he was fouling him

I remember a game against wolves a few seasons ago.
Corner to us.
Wolves defender effectively rugby tackles BDB to the ground.
Nothing.
Commentator made some excuse about 6 of one... etc (it wasn't)

Penalties for wrestling in the penalty box are pretty arbitrary.
It's the main reason so few goals are scored from corners.

 

[Easy 10]

Can you explain to me how giving someone a bear hug in the penalty area is not a foul? Dunk threw him off because he was fouling him

It was six of one half a dozen of the other, dunk was equally culpable. They fouled each other, thus cancelling each other out. Had it happened in our box with a similar situation with us defending a corner and a pen been given, I'd have gone apeshit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm baffled by the narrative repeatedly presented in this thread that there is some sort of competition or battle of wills between the ref and the VAR man, with Big Balls being necessary for the battle of wills to be won.

That isn't what happens, or how VAR works.

The decision to not award a pen yesterday was correct and the process correct.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

In my view, it was probably a penalty. Wissa was incredibly stupid to do that. In front of the Kop or the Stretford End, 100% that's given

But the ref can never give that in normal time and it wasn't a clear and obvious error so I think the officials got it spot on. The football fan in me was delighted to see Madeley stick to his decision. The Brighton fan less so

 

[Blues Guitarist]

It was six of one half a dozen of the other, dunk was equally culpable. They fouled each other, thus cancelling each other out. Had it happened in our box with a similar situation with us defending a corner and a pen been given, I'd have gone apeshit.

The first foul was from Wissa, therefore penalty.

 

[CHAPPERS]

It was six of one half a dozen of the other, dunk was equally culpable. They fouled each other, thus cancelling each other out. Had it happened in our box with a similar situation with us defending a corner and a pen been given, I'd have gone apeshit.

Difference for me is that one player is trying to get to the ball and one isn’t.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think Wissa committed the original foul. Two arms around Dunk’s waist effectively. Dunk tossed him to one side which upset the ref. If Dunk had scored instead of being felled, I’m sure it would have counted as I’ve seen blockers tossed off many times but no foul given.