[Football] Ref blaming

[Guinness Boy]

Well I run the line at my kids games and I can assure you it's the absolute last thing I want to do!

Yep, I've done it a few times when my son played but then I'm Level One qualified, coached for one season and still helped out at training when I could when I didn't have time for the coaching any more. And I actually read the rules

So, given it was me or a guy with a bulldog smoking a fag whose only intention was to cheat some 11 year olds out of a goal so his kid won, I did it. Ergo, I wanted to be in charge.

I got lots right by the way and shitloads wrong too but no one died and the games were mostly won by the better team on the day.

 

[Icy Gull]

Yep, I've done it a few times when my son played but then I'm Level One qualified, coached for one season and still helped out at training when I could when I didn't have time for the coaching any more. And I actually read the rules

So, given it was me or a guy with a bulldog smoking a fag whose only intention was to cheat some 11 year olds out of a goal so his kid won, I did it. Ergo, I wanted to be in charge.

I got lots right by the way and shitloads wrong too but no one died and the games were mostly won by the better team on the day.

Laws NOT rules FFS

 

[Guinness Boy]

Different times, different consequences. Go back to 1950, people might have been busy involving themselves in other aspects of societes and their lives. Move forward to 2022 with a degenerated population - and more so generation - force fed with social media. In newspaper days you'd read about a bad ref once, move on to other shit and get over it. Dumb Kid, 19, in our time could however engulf himself in hatred for the entire day, fuelling his anger, while also having a lot easier ways to access the ref and his/her family.

Of course it turns even more of a problem when it comes to leagues lower in the divisions and in youth football. At some point more and more refs are going to think "ok, I get £20 and if I make a bad decision I could have 15 young gangsters and their braindead parents, inspired by the Mous and Tuchels of the world, harassing me and my family online, or waiting for me at the parking lot after the game. Is it worth it?" and there are clear indications that a lot of these refs are reaching the conclusion that it just isn't worth it.

There are 28000 qualified referees in England with 4000 new signing up each season

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefa...inclusion/overview-of-english-refereeing.ashx

That's in the face of declining numbers of grass roots games.

 

[sydney]

But are we attracting the right people? The larger the pool of potential refs we have the more chance we'll be able to find those who are in it out of a basic sense of wanting to achieve fairness and a love of football rather than those wanting to be some minor celeb or get off on wielding power in an arbitrary way.

something in that mate , the commentators on the Man u v Brighton game were discussing Tiereny's new crew cut as he took the limelight after McTomminay had clattered Caciedo, the reffing and punditry is just appalling , especially when the game is at OT with Fergie watching.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Laws NOT rules FFS

No one likes a Smart Alec

 

[One Love]

I agree with the OP.

However, VAR is here and it disallows the, I didn't see it, etc etc defence.

Presumably a report is sent by the VAR team after every game to head office explaining how and why they came to the big decisions.

This needs to be shared so that we can understand the decisions. In addition, this openness would I hope convince everybody there is no top 6, england player, etc etc bias.

 

[Swansman]

There are 28000 qualified referees in England with 4000 new signing up each season

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefa...inclusion/overview-of-english-refereeing.ashx

That's in the face of declining numbers of grass roots games.

And how many quit each season?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I agree with the OP.

However, VAR is here and it disallows the, I didn't see it, etc etc defence.

Presumably a report is sent by the VAR team after every game to head office explaining how and why they came to the big decisions.

This needs to be shared so that we can understand the decisions. In addition, this openness would I hope convince everybody there is no top 6, england player, etc etc bias.

I think you've cracked onto why this isn't shared

 

[Swansman]

Very true, my biggest annoyance when watching on tv is the commentators rambling on when the ref is explaining decisions

But I agree, a miked up ref is a good idea. Players heard swearing and abusing him over the mike should be sent off. It would 100% cut out dissent very quickly

Yes. Not only miked up, but referee cams to be able to make people see situations from the refs POV. Think that would perhaps increase the understanding that it is a difficult job.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There was no problem with VAR in the Euros or World Cup. Somehow the English leagues especially the PL want to mess it up. There is nothing wrong in asking a ref to look at a pitchside monitor, to check his decision or lack of it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And how many quit each season?

You tell me smartarse. You're the one that suspects the end is nigh.

 

[scamander]

With regards to the Cucurella incident, I read that this was checked by VAR. The issue is that it was doing so to confirm if it was a red card or not. As it wasn't deemed a red so there was nothing for VAR to do.

There's a big communication gap missing because a few people (myself included) aren't wholly aware so we think it's not being used.

They could run basic info videos on Sky Sports or have the presenters run through the basics. Instead the pundits seem proud to not know how it works. Surely that should be part of their job?

As for the rugby idea, this only works if everyone understands and accepts that if the ref doesn't see it then it doesn't matter. I would support only captains being able to speak to the ref and anyone coming up to the ref agressively (and putting their hands on the ref) gets a card.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

There's lots of good refs.

You know they are good when they ref every week but you don't know their name.

 

[Guinness Boy]

There was no problem with VAR in the Euros or World Cup. Somehow the English leagues especially the PL want to mess it up. There is nothing wrong in asking a ref to look at a pitchside monitor, to check his decision or lack of it.

Yep, disappointingly I thought that's where we got to last season. Then commentators and fans created a narrative that the decision was bound to be changed if the ref looked at the monitor and now, it seems, they are not doing so. It's what Tierney should have done with Welbeck's penalty appeal and what Taylor should have done with the hair pull. Then the ref's had a chance to see it again from other angles and in slow motion, just like the rest of us, and can better justify his decision (and, of course, attract less criticism which in the world of [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION] will create a glut of perfect referees).

 

[drew]

I can take ref errors, as you say we have moaned about them for ever. It all tends to even itself out over a season. However there is no excuse for the complete **** ups made by VAR week in week out. In just two games, the push on Welbeck, the tackle by McThug, the pull on Cucu’s hair. Now the McThug one MAYBE mitigating circumstances because Caicedo could have been deemed to have gone in two footed too. The other two, no way. One was a pen and the other should have been at least a booking or sending off. VAR is not fit for purpose too often, I’d happily see it binned and live with refs making errors thanks.

I think there will be disciplinary actions taken against Tuchel for certain and probably Conte. Totally unacceptable behaviour and Tuchel’s outburst against the ref (whilst having some justification) should be stamped on

Well this post nailed it.

Personally, I think the refs only have themselves to blame for their predicament!

Some time ago now they were given the opportunity of punishing dissent by moving free kicks forward as in Rugby but you hardly ever saw them do it despite still seeing players arguing about decisions. If they booked more players for charging at them when they make decisions that would curb player behaviour but they chose not to. Also, referees never make themselves available to explain their decisions which might help although I suspect the reason they don't is that, on reflection, they know they got it wrong. VAR should have eliminated things like Welbeck's penalty and Cucu getting his hair pulled and the fact it hasn't exacerbates the problem because you can just about understand why the on pitch ref may miss it but not someone sitting in front of a screen watching from several angles.

Maybe things will change once Riley departs his post.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think you've cracked onto why this isn't shared

But I don’t want it shared. I also don’t want referees with microphones. I just want them to be able to do their job whilst I watch the game. There are too many people in football who just can’t cope with decisions going against them.

 

[drew]

With regards to the Cucurella incident, I read that this was checked by VAR. The issue is that it was doing so to confirm if it was a red card or not. As it wasn't deemed a red so there was nothing for VAR to do.

There's a big communication gap missing because a few people (myself included) aren't wholly aware so we think it's not being used.

They could run basic info videos on Sky Sports or have the presenters run through the basics. Instead the pundits seem proud to not know how it works. Surely that should be part of their job?

As for the rugby idea, this only works if everyone understands and accepts that if the ref doesn't see it then it doesn't matter. I would support only captains being able to speak to the ref and anyone coming up to the ref agressively (and putting their hands on the ref) gets a card.

Actually I thought everyone knew that VAR was looking at the incident, the question is why wasn't it a red card? Standard practice over the last few years has been that if you raise your hands to an opponents face it's a red. So why wasn't pulling someone to the ground by their hair a red? Pretty sure all the pundits that have passed comment think it should have been. Yet we don't hear from any of the officials to say why that isn't violent conduct?

 

[virtual22]

The job is made harder for ref's by the constant cheating that goes on from all players, going down like they've been shot then getting up and running just fine a few seconds later, claiming for throw ins or corners when they know damn well they touched the ball last, inching down the touchline for throw ins, there's loads of it. They are all told to do it from their clubs as well. Then the clubs moan when the ref gets a decission wrong.

I don't really understand why there isn't a video panel that sit down each Monday morning and run through the games, at least for the EPL, and issue cards for anyone found cheating, simulating. I would have thought the issue would be gone after a couple of weeks.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

With regards to the Cucurella incident, I read that this was checked by VAR. The issue is that it was doing so to confirm if it was a red card or not. As it wasn't deemed a red so there was nothing for VAR to do.

There's a big communication gap missing because a few people (myself included) aren't wholly aware so we think it's not being used.

They could run basic info videos on Sky Sports or have the presenters run through the basics. Instead the pundits seem proud to not know how it works. Surely that should be part of their job?

As for the rugby idea, this only works if everyone understands and accepts that if the ref doesn't see it then it doesn't matter. I would support only captains being able to speak to the ref and anyone coming up to the ref agressively (and putting their hands on the ref) gets a card.

I think any player with long hair deserves to have it pulled. I think VAR were taking this into account.

 

[drew]

The job is made harder for ref's by the constant cheating that goes on from all players, going down like they've been shot then getting up and running just fine a few seconds later, claiming for throw ins or corners when they know damn well they touched the ball last, inching down the touchline for throw ins, there's loads of it. They are all told to do it from their clubs as well. Then the clubs moan when the ref gets a decission wrong.

I don't really understand why there isn't a video panel that sit down each Monday morning and run through the games, at least for the EPL, and issue cards for anyone found cheating, simulating. I would have thought the issue would be gone after a couple of weeks.

Agree with your last point. How hard would it be to watch a video of Gordon writhing around on the ground clutching his face when the contact was nowhere near that. Unfortunatley, I have a feeling that the tv companies love it along with the surrounding of the ref etc. MOTD2 last night were extolling the virtues of the managers clashing as enjoyment!!!