[Football] Raphael Dwamena RIP

[scipio]

To then reveal details of the medical which may impact his own career doesn't put us in a great light either, IMHO. These things are not always black and white, we haven't found evidence of a knee operation he'd tried to conceal, or found there to be no ligaments left in his knee. We've found a potential problem which may or may not cause a bigger problem later. A second opinion on the likelihood of this developing into anything serious could very well give a different prognosis. I don't see it was our place to announce that he's failed a medical due to a heart condition. Simply "the transfer has fallen through" is perfectly adequate, and there would be no reason to cowtail to the subsequent calls of "we have a right to know what went wrong" because we don't.

Great post. This is exactly what should have happened.

 

[Baldseagull]

Great post. This is exactly what should have happened.

Except that even with the knowledge of medical issues, clubs not getting one in so not letting one go, wives who don't want to move etc. quite a number of fans think the club is incompetent.
I imagine it would be far worse if all we knew was we tried but failed.

 

[Blues Rock DJ]

Third opinion.

The albion already sought and received a second opinion.

OK ,without splitting hairs, what's the answer ?

 

[Triggaaar]

The first official announcement of the transfer was made by BHA on twitter and on the BHA website (post 282 or so in this thread, 21. August, 16:30).

But Zurich had leaked it long before then. We follow all of these transfer rumours every single window - our club don't like leaking information on targets, it wouldn't have come from them and the first evidence of this transfer is from Zurich, because Zurich or the player's agent leaked it. Maybe 12 days after the information was leaked, our club was the first to make it official, but that's because it had already been leaked 12 days earlier!

 

[blockhseagull]

Zurich also were the ones to announce the transfer was off due to a failed medical.

 

[scipio]

But Zurich had leaked it long before then. We follow all of these transfer rumours every single window - our club don't like leaking information on targets, it wouldn't have come from them and the first evidence of this transfer is from Zurich, because Zurich or the player's agent leaked it. Maybe 12 days after the information was leaked, our club was the first to make it official, but that's because it had already been leaked 12 days earlier!

Zurich also were the ones to announce the transfer was off due to a failed medical.

We are going in circles.

Again, there is no evidence for transfer coming first from Zurich - there is a rumor of interest coming first from a Swiss newspaper. Now even though they claim that their source is from England, I would assume that it is more likely that they got the info from either Dwamena's agent, somebody close to Dwamena or FCZ in general. However, and this is an important distinction, FCZ never confirmed or denied that BHA is interested in Dwamena. The first official announcment of the transfer came from BHA prior to the medicals, something rather unusual at least from my experience with transfers. And that is what said officials from FCZ found odd, that the transfer was officially announced by BHA so early on.

Regarding the failed medicals. Yes, Zurich said that he did not pass the medicals. And I think this is fine as they did not reveal the medical reason. In this case it was British Newspapers and tweets that mentioned that Dwamena has a heart issue. Now again, we can ask ourselves where that info came from. Given where the info first appeared it most likely came from somebody close to BHA or the medical team doing the tests for you. Again, it is this part of the story that made the president of FCZ angry, that somebody revealed that Dwamena supposedly suffers from a heart issue. Of course the club thinks that the decision of your medical team is odd too, but that is not what he referred to when he said that BHA acts unprofessional and amateurish.

So I'm basically just providing the information I have from the actual interview with the FCZ president, as I realized that in the English news paper articles it does not mention in what context the statement was made.

 

[Triggaaar]

there is a rumor of interest coming first from a Swiss newspaper. Now even though they claim that their source is from England, I would assume that it is more likely that they got the info from either Dwamena's agent, somebody close to Dwamena or FCZ in general. However, and this is an important distinction, FCZ never confirmed or denied that BHA is interested in Dwamena.

I disagree. They may not have confirmed it officially, but they probably confirmed it quietly to the media etc. One is official, the other isn't, but the result is the same - everyone finds out about it.

The first official announcment of the transfer came from BHA prior to the medicals, something rather unusual at least from my experience with transfers. And that is what said officials from FCZ found odd, that the transfer was officially announced by BHA so early on.

So early? It was 12 days after the media in Switzerland reported it.

Regarding the failed medicals. Yes, Zurich said that he did not pass the medicals. And I think this is fine as they did not reveal the medical reason. In this case it was British Newspapers and tweets that mentioned that Dwamena has a heart issue. Now again, we can ask ourselves where that info came from. Given where the info first appeared it most likely came from somebody close to BHA or the medical team doing the tests for you.

I don't know where that came from, both clubs and the player and agent would have known about it, any of those could have leaked it.

Again, it is this part of the story that made the president of FCZ angry, that somebody revealed that Dwamena supposedly suffers from a heart issue.

To be honest I don't know about the etiquette of discussing medical issues. One of our players had a heart problem this year, I think the club may have mentioned it was related to the heart, but not gone into further details.

Of course the club thinks that the decision of your medical team is odd too

Well they would say that wouldn't they, as the alternative would be to say that their own tests weren't good enough or that they were deliberately selling someone with a problem.

What your club could have done was tell our club about his heart condition on day one, and said that they don't think it's a problem. How do you justify them not mentioning it?

 

[GreersElbow]

I disagree. They may not have confirmed it officially, but they probably confirmed it quietly to the media etc. One is official, the other isn't, but the result is the same - everyone finds out about it.

So early? It was 12 days after the media in Switzerland reported it.

I don't know where that came from, both clubs and the player and agent would have known about it, any of those could have leaked it.
To be honest I don't know about the etiquette of discussing medical issues. One of our players had a heart problem this year, I think the club may have mentioned it was related to the heart, but not gone into further details.
Well they would say that wouldn't they, as the alternative would be to say that their own tests weren't good enough or that they were deliberately selling someone with a problem.

What your club could have done was tell our club about his heart condition on day one, and said that they don't think it's a problem. How do you justify them not mentioning it?

I always appreciate your break down and tear apart posts, posts.

 

[Triggaaar]

I always appreciate your break down and tear apart posts, posts.

That puts you in a pretty exclusive club

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

That puts you in a pretty exclusive club

I do too! [emoji2]

Was discussing the Dwamena situation the other day, and apparently Poyet had a strict line that signings could not be announced until the player had completed a medical.

I guess as soon as the selling club leaks anything it does put us in a difficult position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[middletoenail]

That puts you in a pretty exclusive club [emoji38]

Me too, when I'm trying to sleep [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk

 

[scipio]

I disagree. They may not have confirmed it officially, but they probably confirmed it quietly to the media etc. One is official, the other isn't, but the result is the same - everyone finds out about it.

So early? It was 12 days after the media in Switzerland reported it.

I don't know where that came from, both clubs and the player and agent would have known about it, any of those could have leaked it.

So, in the first case it clearly was the Swiss club who leaked the info about BHAs interest in Dwamena, but when it comes to the heart issue it could have been any of the involved parties? Talking about biased perception

And of course there is a difference between a rumor and an official announcement. The difference is quite obvious if you look at what has happened in the aftermath: BHA officially announced the transfer, for some reason the deal fell through, fans want to know why and somehow the info about the heart issue got leaked. You really think the story would have developed the same if this would have stayed unofficial? I don't think so.

To be honest I don't know about the etiquette of discussing medical issues.

Ever heard of medical confidentiality obligation? It's quite a universal thing. Most importantly, it's as well common sense, that you don't share personal medical information with the public.

Well they would say that wouldn't they, as the alternative would be to say that their own tests weren't good enough or that they were deliberately selling someone with a problem.

What your club could have done was tell our club about his heart condition on day one, and said that they don't think it's a problem. How do you justify them not mentioning it?

Tests were repeated, same results, same conclusion. He is back in training.

We do not know what was communicated between the clubs, I don't know if it is standard practice to share medical information. Again, there is something called medical confidentiality. However, FCZ has released a statement that deviations from the norm are nothing uncommon in such tests. The finding was analyzed and its consequences on health and performance were assessed. The medical team concluded that this deviation is not dangerous to health and that it does not affect the performance of a top athlete. Again, these test were done this January prior to his transfer to FCZ and they were repeated again at the end of August. Note, FCZ does not talk about the nature of the condition.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

We are going in circles.


Regarding the failed medicals. Yes, Zurich said that he did not pass the medicals. And I think this is fine as they did not reveal the medical reason. In this case it was British Newspapers and tweets that mentioned that Dwamena has a heart issue. Now again, we can ask ourselves where that info came from. Given where the info first appeared it most likely came from somebody close to BHA or the medical team doing the tests for you. Again, it is this part of the story that made the president of FCZ angry, that somebody revealed that Dwamena supposedly suffers from a heart issue. Of course the club thinks that the decision of your medical team is odd too, but that is not what he referred to when he said that BHA acts unprofessional and amateurish.

So I'm basically just providing the information I have from the actual interview with the FCZ president, as I realized that in the English news paper articles it does not mention in what context the statement was made.

Again you are incorrect, our local Journalist who first broke the news locally on the 25th August, quotes his source, for the information regarding the nature of the failed medical, as reports coming from Switzerland.

In his piece regarding the medical, Andy Naylor writes "Albion's £10 million deal to sign Ghana striker Raphael Dwamena from FC Zurich is off. The 21-year-old has failed a medical, according to reports in Switzerland due to a heart condition."

 

[The Fifth Column]

So, in the first case it clearly was the Swiss club who leaked the info about BHAs interest in Dwamena, but when it comes to the heart issue it could have been any of the involved parties? Talking about biased perception

And of course there is a difference between a rumor and an official announcement. The difference is quite obvious if you look at what has happened in the aftermath: BHA officially announced the transfer, for some reason the deal fell through, fans want to know why and somehow the info about the heart issue got leaked. You really think the story would have developed the same if this would have stayed unofficial? I don't think so.




Ever heard of medical confidentiality obligation? It's quite a universal thing. Most importantly, it's as well common sense, that you don't share personal medical information with the public.




Tests were repeated, same results, same conclusion. He is back in training.

We do not know what was communicated between the clubs, I don't know if it is standard practice to share medical information. Again, there is something called medical confidentiality. However, FCZ has released a statement that deviations from the norm are nothing uncommon in such tests. The finding was analyzed and its consequences on health and performance were assessed. The medical team concluded that this deviation is not dangerous to health and that it does not affect the performance of a top athlete. Again, these test were done this January prior to his transfer to FCZ and they were repeated again at the end of August. Note, FCZ does not talk about the nature of the condition.

Scipio, It doesn't sound like you are prepared to accept that the only amateurs in all of this are FC Zurich, they leaked the information, they announced everything before we did or if they didn't sources in Switzerland did which was simply picked up by the media here. Accept it, get over it and move on. At the end of the day what does it matter and who really cares? You almost cashed in to the tune of several million euros but it turned out the player has a condition we are not prepared to risk such an investment on. It might not matter so much in the backwoods of the Swiss football league but it matters quite a bit for a club like Brighton in the Premier League.

 

[scipio]

Again you are incorrect, our local Journalist who first broke the news locally on the 25th August, quotes his source, for the information regarding the nature of the failed medical, as reports coming from Switzerland.

In his piece regarding the medical, Andy Naylor writes "Albion's £10 million deal to sign Ghana striker Raphael Dwamena from FC Zurich is off. The 21-year-old has failed a medical, according to reports in Switzerland due to a heart condition."

Interesting that Andy Naylor claims that information about a heart issue was coming from Swiss reports. Not a single newspaper article mentioned the heart issue before it appeared in English media, they actually all mention the English media as source for the heart condition. There are reports from "the sun" and "the daily mail" from August 25th, I don't know when Andy Naylors article was last updated, but on the 25th the only information that was public from the FCZ/Swiss side was that Dwamena failed medicals. The heart issue was not mentioned until the next day.

You can confirm this yourself when you google "dwamena heart" and "dwamena herz" between August 24th and 25th: many hits in English, no in German related to the heart issue. If you make the same search just a day later on the 26th of August you will find a lot of hits in German quoting the English media.

 

[Triggaaar]

So, in the first case it clearly was the Swiss club who leaked the info about BHAs interest in Dwamena, but when it comes to the heart issue it could have been any of the involved parties? Talking about biased perception

Let's look at it logically - whose interest does it serve to leak that we were bidding for Dwamena? Not ours. We didn't want a bidding war. And let's look at history - our club hate info on player recruitment being leaked, it's always against their interest. There's just no way that was leaked by our club.

Then the medical issue - that's not as obvious - the information would obviously come out at some point, it doesn't particularly suit either club more than the other, and I don't have the history of this sort of thing to see how our club generally handles it. Maybe it was us, maybe not, I have no idea. It doesn't really matter does it? It had to come out, when players don't join due to a failed medical, that's always announced, it doesn't matter when and by whom. The personal nature of the failure is a different matter. As I said, I don't know what the etiquette is there.

And of course there is a difference between a rumor and an official announcement. The difference is quite obvious if you look at what has happened in the aftermath: BHA officially announced the transfer, for some reason the deal fell through, fans want to know why and somehow the info about the heart issue got leaked. You really think the story would have developed the same if this would have stayed unofficial? I don't think so.

Yes, if the player traveled over here for a medical, that's too difficult to keep quiet. It's a bit silly your club leaking the transfer and then complaining that we announced it.

Ever heard of medical confidentiality obligation? It's quite a universal thing.

But this isn't a doctor patient relationship, it's the purchase of a player.

Tests were repeated, same results, same conclusion. He is back in training.

That's completely irrelevant. Maybe he's ok for now, but there's a concern he won't be in some months which means spending £10m isn't wise. If your club had mentioned the problem at the start, all this could have been avoided, but presumably they didn't mention it as they didn't want to risk the size of the fee they'd get for him.

We do not know what was communicated between the clubs, I don't know if it is standard practice to share medical information. Again, there is something called medical confidentiality.

lol, now you're being silly. The information could have been passed on with the player's consent, obviously we'd be carrying out a medical anyway.

However, FCZ has released a statement that deviations from the norm are nothing uncommon in such tests. The finding was analyzed and its consequences on health and performance were assessed. The medical team concluded that this deviation is not dangerous to health and that it does not affect the performance of a top athlete. Again, these test were done this January prior to his transfer to FCZ and they were repeated again at the end of August. Note, FCZ does not talk about the nature of the condition.

Again, what else are they supposed to say? They're not going to say that they tried it on and got caught. Hopefully Dwamena will be fine, but it wasn't your club's investment at risk, so Brighton followed medical advice and were unable to proceed.

 

[Medwayseagull]

Interesting that Andy Naylor claims that information about a heart issue was coming from Swiss reports. Not a single newspaper article mentioned the heart issue before it appeared in English media, they actually all mention the English media as source for the heart condition. There are reports from "the sun" and "the daily mail" from August 25th, I don't know when Andy Naylors article was last updated, but on the 25th the only information that was public from the FCZ/Swiss side was that Dwamena failed medicals. The heart issue was not mentioned until the next day.

You can confirm this yourself when you google "dwamena heart" and "dwamena herz" between August 24th and 25th: many hits in English, no in German related to the heart issue. If you make the same search just a day later on the 26th of August you will find a lot of hits in German quoting the English media.

Is it a Swiss trait to keep repeating yourself over and over again. You are a guest on another club's forum - best you leave it now. The only thing that should concern all of us is for the player to be OK and we'll enough to carry on with his career.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Is it a Swiss trait to keep repeating yourself over and over again. You are a guest on another club's forum - best you leave it now. The only thing that should concern all of us is for the player to be OK and we'll enough to carry on with his career.

I think it is a Swiss thing, just look how many years Sepp Blatter got away with repeating to the entire world that there was no corruption within FIFA.

 

[drew]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if it was mentioned before but surely the reason we don't go ahead in these situations is that we can't get insurance on the player? So in effect it is the decision of underwriters that mean we don't proceed.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if it was mentioned before but surely the reason we don't go ahead in these situations is that we can't get insurance on the player? So in effect it is the decision of underwriters that mean we don't proceed.

Careful mate that sounds like new information, has that been cleared by the Swiss information police for release?! Bloody amateur.