Racism And The Cumberbatch Conundrum

[smudge]

Got a French guy here who accused me of racism. Mind you, I did call him a cheese eating surrender monkey.

 

[The Spanish]

Unless you're a f@cking rainbow why would you want to be called coloured? It's not middle class guilt (I grew up in Whitehawk) it's black people's preference. I suspect if they went around calling us pinkys we would soon pipe up. As for the comment about John Barns, people saying he should play for Jamaica were probably intending to be racists, those saying the same about Sterling a probably doing so from a more enlightened perspective. Its really not that difficult to respect others and their wishes is it

John Barnes got a lot of shit. It was disgraceful some of the stuff he was on the end of. Even after his goal against Brazil there is footage of the travelling support refusing to acknowledge it. Ironically if he had been London born I am fairly sure he wouldn't have got most of the crap he got, irrespective of his ethnicity.

 

[The Spanish]

I have chosen to move to Australia Bushy. Who am I allowed to support, I wouldn't want to be having a negative effect on social cohesion.

What about my children, who should they be supporting, Australia or England?

Are they allowed to support Brighton?

This is a middle class guilt minefield!!!!

British people moving to Australia where the majority of people are still of british Isles descent, and it is culturally a fag paper away from the UK, is a straw man argument.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

i would like you to see where i am coming from here,there is mixed language all over the place about racism and it seems to me all it is doing is making an important issue pathetic playground politics concerning who dishes out or plays out the most racist or i am offended cards.

If the term coloured is now offensive(and i genuinlly didnt know that, i never got the memo) why is the foremost black civil rights group in the USA The NAACP,( the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) still permitted to exist in that name

I havn't read this whole thread, sorry if repeating points.

I think the term 'coloured' has been deemed 'offensive' for DECADES as it was language used (although in a nicer way) when 'they' were being more outrightly oppressed.

Think about the word from a 'non-white' perspective and how it defines people. It has connotations of setting up 'whites' as above. If you can't see that, look at your hand, what colour is it? My point being it is obviously a colour, unless you're translucent, not that i've got anything against the translucents, but you get my drift.

As for the people dishing out the 'i am offended cards' then you're probably reading the wrong media. I don't generally come across it much in daily life, although i might have read the article you linked it wouldn't have irked me. We live in a world where racism exists, and we should take account of that until it's wiped out. It's far too soon to play the 'get over it' cards, another 2 generations at least methinks.

 

[The Spanish]

I am not exactly Mr pc, and no matter the rights and wrongs of semantics being used to exert a passive aggressive power, anyone of his age who doesn't understand the word coloured is a bit iffy, has led a bit of a sheltered life.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I dont follow speach codes, if someone gets upset its their problem not mine.

On the internet probably, in the real world it's just a matter of time...

 

[The Spanish]

you can always offend the professional offendees. iirc the big bruha over Sachsgate was after a repeat airing. someone had written about it in a newpaper and upon the repeat hundreds of compalints were made, versus none for the original. though i maybe confusing with another incident, apparently its not uncommon pattern.

A lot was made of sachsgate being whipped up into a frenzy by the mail, and non listeners bring offended by proxy, but when push comes to shove it was horrible, and way out of line.

 

[User removed 4]

Thanks for allowing me to have my say. Is that video shot outside the new Waitrose by your station?

No you clown it's shot in tooting, South london.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I do have some sympathy for Mr Cumberbatch, especially as I was "guilty" of using exactly the same term a few years ago. I was in a dance class, used the word coloured in all innocence, and was genuinely shocked by the response of a black woman who made it clear that she did not find the term acceptable. For the record, I was born in 1968 and had no idea that the term was found offensive by some.

As the article seems to suggest, I guess my real crime is not having a number of close black friends (who would have put me right long before I WAS put right). Oh well; we live and learn.

I have sympathy for him and you too, it's a term my parents used throughout the eighties, i expect his might have done the same.

But the morale of this story being that a black person did find the term offensive. So to those peeps that enjoy offending people - carry on using the word - and please let us hear more whingeing on how you don't like having to change a word and rather rub the whole racism thing in other peoples faces.

#bigots

 

[User removed 4]

On the internet probably, in the real world it's just a matter of time...

I think you're expressing your own fears there rather than his.

 

[Triggaaar]

How did it come to this that people seem to be offended left right and centre about absolutely everything.

People have always been offended, but no one used to give a shit that others were offended.

And when did "coloured" become offensive?

A few decades ago!

I used it a couple of weeks ago on here because i thought using the word Black instead would be deemed offensive.

Seems i am back to front.Im not sure i can keep up with the constant changes as to what is or what is not racist or offensive anymore.

It's not changing constantly, I have no idea how you didn't know that people don't like being referred to as 'coloured'.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

It's easy to be confused. I recently watched "Any Given Sunday" and was shocked at the amount of times the 'n' word was used, but never by white people.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I think you're expressing your own fears there rather than his.

Wouldn't be the first time!

My flippant point was though nearly ALL of us follow societal speech codes, it's pretty much hardwired into our brains. Perhaps some types of autism and other syndromes don't, but these are exceptional.

 

[BadFish]

British people moving to Australia where the majority of people are still of british Isles descent, and it is culturally a fag paper away from the UK, is a straw man argument.

I would say that the longer I live here the more cultural differences I see. As a further point i would say that most people do not identify as being of British Isles decent. Which to me is important because I believe that what and where you identify with is more important than where you were born. A great man once said "It's not where you are from, its where your at"

However it is all a straw man argument, your allegiances to countries and by extension their sporting teams are about how you feel and what you identify with. National boundaries are contrived and in many ways meaningless. A good example of this is Andy Murray he represents us as a Brit, yet many dislike him because he is a Scot. As Brits we single out the Welsh, Northerners, Southerners, Home Counties Posh Knobs, Lowland Scots, Highland Scots, Suffolk Farmers, Norfolk Farmers (I could go on and on) The lines of cultural importance are a human construct and are drawn to suit our own ends.

The point I was trying to make to Bushy was that we shouldn't and needn't live by his hardline stuck in stone cultural rules about how we identify with ourselves. to my mind his kind of thinking is incredible damaging to his beloved social cohesion. Imagine trying to assimilate with someone with such inflexible views.

 

[The Spanish]

H

I would say that the longer I live here the more cultural differences I see. As a further point i would say that most people do not identify as being of British Isles decent. Which to me is important because I believe that what and where you identify with is more important than where you were born. A great man once said "It's not where you are from, its where your at"

However it is all a straw man argument, your allegiances to countries and by extension their sporting teams are about how you feel and what you identify with. National boundaries are contrived and in many ways meaningless. A good example of this is Andy Murray he represents us as a Brit, yet many dislike him because he is a Scot. As Brits we single out the Welsh, Northerners, Southerners, Home Counties Posh Knobs, Lowland Scots, Highland Scots, Suffolk Farmers, Norfolk Farmers (I could go on and on) The lines of cultural importance are a human construct and are drawn to suit our own ends.

The point I was trying to make to Bushy was that we shouldn't and needn't live by his hardline stuck in stone cultural rules about how we identify with ourselves. to my mind his kind of thinking is incredible damaging to his beloved social cohesion. Imagine trying to assimilate with someone with such inflexible views.

I think that great man was blooming Ian brown from the stone roses.

I live in Scotland as a southern Englishman, apart from funny pies and and a few words, in the global scheme of things the cultural differences are negligible. Compare that to going from new haven to dieppe on the ferry, a far shorter trip than Glasgow.

Those closest to us will always be at pains to accentuate difference, Australia couldn't be a better example. Couldn't be further away but plays cricket, Union Jack on the flag, queen on the money, fish and chips, i could go on. Sussex but with deadly spiders.

 

[Eeyore]

Another example of how views have changed: When Jamaican-born John Barnes was playing for England anybody who said he wasn't English and he should be playing for Jamaica was a knuckle-dragging racist. Now someone who says Jamaican-born Raheem Sterling isn't English and he should be playing for Jamaica is someone who is concerned that we are we're denuding poorer countries of their talent. Downside of immigration y'know.

Indeed, most of the people who said that of John Barnes probably were. I remember a person claiming that we had only won 1-0 in Brazil...

Good to see the debate on nationality issues moving on.

 

[pastafarian]

It's not changing constantly, I have no idea how you didn't know that people don't like being referred to as 'coloured'.

oh well,i didnt know( as others have also said)
nearly all my people of colour friends and acquaintances are in Africa where this really doesnt seem to be an issue,maybe thats why i didnt realise.

 

[looney]

On the internet probably, in the real world it's just a matter of time...

Meaning what? That sooner or later I'll bump into the kind of political narcassists that inhabit forums? Well I have and it is the aonymous public speaking, or puffing of chests that attracts them to forums like this. IRL they back peddle or melt away.

 

[The Spanish]

It may do in some places, but general racist comments are far more commonplace in the US. You hear things here on the street that would immediately lead to an arrest in the UK.

Some of the stuff New York taxi drivers come out with is genuinely shocking.

Not in the UK, but more specifically England. The UK has massively varying attitudes, this is important to remember.
I spend a lot of time in the U.S. and as a rule they are far more sensitive than most of the UK outside of London or Birmingham or Manchester.

 

[Triggaaar]

oh well,i didnt know( as others have also said)

Fair enough. It's being mentioned in the media quite a lot, and you notice how black people refer to themselves as black, rather than coloured.

nearly all my people of colour friends and acquaintances

Since you now know, why are you still saying 'colour'? Do you mean 'nearly all my black friends' or 'nearly all my non white friends'?

By the way, I'm not having a go at you. Like that Guardian article you linked to - there's no need to make a big deal out of someone saying the wrong term, just correct them and move on.