Racism And The Cumberbatch Conundrum

[W.C.]

have to agree with you there regarding the UK

yet in the States Pakis or Paks is quite common even for news channels.and no one bats an eyelid

its a global minefield!

Yeah, I was thinking of the Ozzies who would probably abbreviate the word 'a' if they could. I'm sure it's a perfectly acceptable way to refer to a Pakistani in some countries.

 

[W.C.]

have to agree with you there regarding the UK

yet in the States Pakis or Paks is quite common even for news channels.and no one bats an eyelid

its a global minefield!

that reminds me also of an Australian girl I was friends with. Both her parents were French and white. There was some football match involving Greece on and she commented that 'As a fellow wog I better support Greece'
Me : 'As a fellow what?!'
Had never heard that word used in that way.

 

[pastafarian]

that reminds me also of an Australian girl I was friends with. Both her parents were French and white. There was some football match involving Greece on and she commented that 'As a fellow wog I better support Greece'
Me : 'As a fellow what?!'
Had never heard that word used in that way.

would that indicate people should stop fussing so much about the "word" in question and concentrate more on how the word was used or intended,i cant help but think the racism debate is descending into playground he said she said and becoming more and more ridiculous because of it

 

[W.C.]

would that indicate people should stop fussing so much about the "word" in question and concentrate more on how the word was used or intended,i cant help but think the racism debate is descending into playground he said she said and becoming more and more ridiculous because of it

Well, for one thing, I don't think anyone should accuse people of fussing if a word like 'wog' was used in the UK, do you? It only exists as an insult here and to use it would at the very least show a complete lack of respect for other people.
From another point of view, I feel any debate about racism is getting shouted down now because people feel like 'It's gone too far'. You hear it all the time 'Oh is that racist?' with a sarcastic roll of the eyes. That worries me more than a few people getting a bit uptight about language. I usually only hear about the people 'who like to get offended about everything' from the very people that this seems to annoy. I'm not saying they don't exist, but it seems like there are lines of people just itching to debunk any incident of racism the minute it gets brought up.

So I thought that article you posted was really good. Very even handed about the whole 'debate'.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm not saying they don't exist, but it seems like there are lines of people just itching to debunk any incident of racism the minute it gets brought up.

So I thought that article you posted was really good. Very even handed about the whole 'debate'.

yet in this instance Mr Cumberbatch had to issue an apology because he had been informed some people were offended.I would say no normal person could believe he intended to be offensive yet here we all are debating it.The whole thing is becoming a parody of itself

 

[Franks Wild Years]

Just so that we all know. From wiki dictionary :
Paki.
Etymology
Shortened from Pakistani

Pronunciation
IPA(key): /ˈpæki/
Rhymes: -æki
Noun
Paki (plural Pakis)

(UK, Canada, offensive, ethnic slur) A Pakistani
(UK, Canada, offensive, ethnic slur) Anyone whose origins are perceived to be from South Asia/the Indian subcontinent.
Usage notes
Paki acquired offensive connotations in the 1960s when used by British tabloids to refer to subjects of former colony states in a derogatory and racist manner. In modern British usage "Paki" is typically a derogatory label used for all South Asians, including Indians, Afghans and Bangladeshis. To a lesser extent, it has also been applied to Arabs and others perceived to resemble South Asians.
In recent times there has been a trend by second and third-generation British Pakistanis to reclaim the word, so that it can be used between young British Pakistanis, but not by outsiders, even Indians and Bangladeshis.

Make no mistake. If you use this word you are using an insult, not a mere abbreviation.

 

[The Spanish]

Ive spent a fair amount of time in Florida and i think people would be shocked at the levels of racism there away from the bright tourist lights of Orlando Tampa and Miami beach,i remember a conversation recently with my nephew and his best mate in their flat,a waiters post had become vacant in the restaurant they were both working at near the university,i asked if they were both going to fight each other for it(much better money than busboy),they both laughed and looked at me oddly and his mate said i cant apply for that job .........if you havnt noticed im black.

I doubt people would believe me if i said i had been to beaches near Alabama where there were "unofficial" sections for black people separate from whites known locally as chicken bone beach

Also it's quite common for Latinos in Miami dade to refer to broward as gringo land, to your face.

 

[W.C.]

yet in this instance Mr Cumberbatch had to issue an apology because he had been informed some people were offended.I would say no normal person could believe he intended to be offensive yet here we all are debating it.The whole thing is becoming a parody of itself

Well, to be honest I don't think an apology is that ridiculous. As been said by a lot of people on here for example, we're surprised a man his age didn't think it was, at best, an out dated term. If I went somewhere and used a word people weren't comfortable with and they told me so, I'd apologise. He said sorry, you say tomato, I say tomayto, lets call the whole thing a thoroughly nice chap and doesn't mitter whit race he is.

 

[brighton fella]

Jesus. Anyone from the UK who thinks Paki is a neat abbreviation is deluded.

why do you have to take things so literally, of course I don't mean that.
I am asking you why do "YOU" and many Pakistani people find it offensive when their name has been abbreviated to paki ? its a simple enough question that hasn't been answered ? I am also asking you why do british people not get offended when being referred to as brits.
lets face it literally anything Is looked upon as being offensive these days.i often wonder to myself whereabouts all of this silly nonsense is leading us.. and will it ever stop,?
surely you cant be that deluded that you fail to see my point in all of this.

 

[brighton fella]

Just so that we all know. From wiki dictionary :
Paki.
Etymology
Shortened from Pakistani

Pronunciation
IPA(key): /ˈpæki/
Rhymes: -æki
Noun
Paki (plural Pakis)

(UK, Canada, offensive, ethnic slur) A Pakistani
(UK, Canada, offensive, ethnic slur) Anyone whose origins are perceived to be from South Asia/the Indian subcontinent.
Usage notes
Paki acquired offensive connotations in the 1960s when used by British tabloids to refer to subjects of former colony states in a derogatory and racist manner. In modern British usage "Paki" is typically a derogatory label used for all South Asians, including Indians, Afghans and Bangladeshis. To a lesser extent, it has also been applied to Arabs and others perceived to resemble South Asians.
In recent times there has been a trend by second and third-generation British Pakistanis to reclaim the word, so that it can be used between young British Pakistanis, but not by outsiders, even Indians and Bangladeshis.

Make no mistake. If you use this word you are using an insult, not a mere abbreviation.

under your terms we will be frightened to speak next.............

 

[Soulman]

why do you have to take things so literally, of course I don't mean that.
I am asking you why do "YOU" and many Pakistani people find it offensive when their name has been abbreviated to paki ? its a simple enough question that hasn't been answered ? I am also asking you why do british people not get offended when being referred to as brits.
lets face it literally anything Is looked upon as being offensive these days.i often wonder to myself whereabouts all of this silly nonsense is leading us.. and will it ever stop,?
surely you cant be that deluded that you fail to see my point in all of this.

Well obviously many "Brits" shorten the words to 4 or 5 letters, like Pole, Czech, Scot, Thai, Argie etc, in fact our departed manager was often referred to as a Fin amongst other things. Paki is also a shortened version, but is deemed as unacceptable yet it is also a shortened version the same as many others.

 

[brighton fella]

Well obviously many "Brits" shorten the words to 4 or 5 letters, like Pole, Czech, Scot, Thai, Argie etc, in fact our departed manager was often referred to as a Fin amongst other things. Paki is also a shortened version, but is deemed as unacceptable yet it is also a shortened version the same as many others.

exactly so what is the big problem. political correctness gone mad.
hardly brought ethnic and white communities together has it, they are more divided if anything.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Obviously i cant anwser the question for the person you are directing it at,but when you are referring to black people and if they find it insulting are you referring to UK black people,North American black people,African black people,black people from other regions or black people in general.

The level of what constitutes being insulting or offensive differs globally.

Good point. Although we've drifted off from your original thread somewhat.

We're talking about the UK's speech code and it's laws.

 

[looney]

Hehe, avoiding the tough questions?

Firstly, yes my words are a little mangled over your displaying of ironic ignorance about 'spastics'. Let me attempt to be clearer.

'Spastics' are ok upstairs, they are quite mentally capable. Your ignorance of that, displays how when a word is abused, it picks up connotations and changes meaning. However, the word was originally used as an identity not an insult, 'i am a spastic' would have been something said by many many mentally capable people.
Now to protect those people from abuse and ignorance, they have had the word changed to 'cerebral palsy'. Imagine drawing the short straw and having cerebral palsy, not only would you have to put up with the incredible pain of the condition, the frustration of having a limited lifestyle. You would also have to put up with the ignorance of people like you, because you haven't bothered to learn the difference between an insult and a disease.
And why should you? Hence speech codes, to make you aware.
Now do you understand how they protect people?


My third time of asking you, do you genuinely believe that a significant number of black people don't find the word 'coloured' insulting?

No it doesn't protect people, the spastic society became scope the you had scopies, as well as all other terms for stupid people.

No I dont beleive most find it offensive for 2 reasons. Firstly if their was major offence people like you would be waving statistics about to back up their point. But it is a political agenda not a moral principle. also their isn't the data as most coloureds, blacks or call them what you will are smart enough to contextualise words.

Well smart isn't the right word, ironicly sensative is, they need to pick up and distinguish between unusual, clumsy or dated langauge and the type that precipitates violence. This is something you wouldn't understand just posturing online but I had this explained to me by a South African of Zulu origin who went to school in the apartitie era "Stepping over bodies and hiding in the grass". To someone of that past then Word policing is a petty and laughable activity. Which it is.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

No it doesn't protect people, the spastic society became scope the you had scopies, as well as all other terms for stupid people.

No I dont beleive most find it offensive for 2 reasons. Firstly if their was major offence people like you would be waving statistics about to back up their point. But it is a political agenda not a moral principle. also their isn't the data as most coloureds, blacks or call them what you will are smart enough to contextualise words.

Well smart isn't the right word, ironicly sensative is, they need to pick up and distinguish between unusual, clumsy or dated langauge and the type that precipitates violence. This is something you wouldn't understand just posturing online but I had this explained to me by a South African of Zulu origin who went to school in the apartitie era "Stepping over bodies and hiding in the grass". To someone of that past then Word policing is a petty and laughable activity. Which it is.

You've earlier displayed your ignorance about 'spastics' - you thought they were mentally incapable. Why?
I can only presume seeing the amount of information that has been around about cerebral palsy, that you're happy in your ignorance. It would follow that you don't know much about the abusive undertones of the word 'coloured' either. Don't you think?

Why don't you run along and educate yourself? Rather than spouting arguments that promote bigotry.

It's the attitude of self entitled people like you, that as soon as you feel your rights are being impinged you pull the 'victim card', without a single thought to those they are designed to protect.
You're not the victim in this, and while the victims of your ignorance are recovering, we need some laws or education. And you're living proof that the education way hasn't worked.
I hope in my lifetime these laws can be rescinded, but while there are people like you spouting their ignorance, 'wha wha whaa, i can't use a word', we will need them.

Thank you for proving your willfully ignorant attitude by not researching how the word 'coloured' is viewed as offensive by blacks. You are happy in your ignorance. Notice i haven't waved any statistics in your face - you can google them yourself, it's not my job to educate you.

Lastly, your arguments keep coming back to those who put these rules in place, you seem to have a beef with them and their 'political agenda'. This i do find interesting and might be something we can agree on. Can you explain more about what you think this political agenda is?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

No it doesn't protect people, the spastic society became scope the you had scopies, as well as all other terms for stupid people.

Ok i will try to educate you...

"In the 1980s, the term spastic became a general insult, partially because of the Blue Peter programmes following the life story of Joey Deacon in an attempt to show disability in a positive light during the International Year of Disabled Persons. Consequently, the society changed to its current name on 26 March 1994,[11] following a two-year consultation with disabled people and their families."

That's a short excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_(charity).

The stupid people you are talking about are the disabled people and their families. I think this says a lot about you.

 

[glasfryn]

all this talk about calling people supposed nasty names
has anyone one of you watched citizen Khan lately

 

[clungemeister]

sake.......just that.

 

[brighton fella]

what's laughable about all of this is that white people treat racist slander as more of a problem than the ethnics do themselves.

 

[Soulman]

Ok i will try to educate you...

"In the 1980s, the term spastic became a general insult, partially because of the Blue Peter programmes following the life story of Joey Deacon in an attempt to show disability in a positive light during the International Year of Disabled Persons. Consequently, the society changed to its current name on 26 March 1994,[11] following a two-year consultation with disabled people and their families."

That's a short excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_(charity).

The stupid people you are talking about are the disabled people and their families. I think this says a lot about you.

Disabled people were not happy with the term spastic and it was changed. If the people of Pakistan are not happy with the shortening of the word, then perhaps they should change the name as well. Perhaps because they get offended they could be put in a different category , perhaps labelled special needs.
Your patronising replies i think "says a lot about you"