[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Bry Nylon]

Until British voters are angry about the right things…

The sheer arrogance is breathtaking

 

[chickens]

The sheer arrogance is breathtaking

- absolutely arrogant, but still true.

The poor fuckers who arrive on these shores have had very much the same experience as an established British citizen waiting for a minor operation.

Delays and cancellations, waiting months and years for decisions. Underfunded public services are at the root of all of these issues, and one of the main reasons for the underfunding is the fact that we are allowing larger businesses to be so cute with their tax avoidance that in some cases we’re paying them, even as they’re putting smaller British owned businesses out of business.

Blaming the poor fucker ahead of you in the queue for a public service is pointless, they’re as trapped by Britain’s lack of state resources as we are.

Edit: if anyone is actually interested and hasn’t already put me on ignore, there’s an interesting (if imperfect) book entitled Vassal State: How America runs Britain by a chap called Angus Hanton, which focuses specifically on America’s impact on our public finances, and which makes some fairly pointed observations.

It is dry in places, and veers into opinion in others, but is worth reading. It was recommended by somebody else on here, which is how I came to read it.

 

[Jim in the West]

I would add one other: End the fallacy that immigrants ‘take our jobs and undercut our pay’. Pre Brexit most migrant labour was employed doing the jobs that locals would not eg fruit and veg picking and they worked hard and were well paid. We now have a national food crises building because there is a lack of labour and so farmers are not planting the crops. Pay rates remain good but it’s bloody hard work and I can’t see many reform voters or EDL members getting their hands dirty!

The evidence is there, but many prefer to ignore it, or just can't be bothered to look for it (quote below from an article in the FT yesterday):

"Immigration grows the economy and has little or no effect on jobs and wages

Increased net migration leads to a larger economy, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the fiscal watchdog. But it has a small and uncertain effect on GDP per capita, depending on the skill levels of migrants and the proportion that are working or in the UK as dependants. For the government, a larger overall economy means public sector net debt will be lower as a share of GDP than otherwise, which potentially increases the chancellor’s room for fiscal manoeuvre come Budget day. Despite the popular view that cutting immigration would drive up wages, multiple academic studies have found no evidence that migration significantly affects rates of pay or employment among native populations, according to Oxford university’s Migration Observatory think-tank."

 

[Baldseagull]

reality ...?? the situation..?? the figures on some of these graphics are highly questionable , for instance a graphic above displays that currently only 25% of the population of the country were not born in the UK , i find that quite hard to believe as i do the graphic that displays the number of people living in a single dwelling by ethnicity , you can do a lot with averages.

Fairly nice demonstration that you probably are gripping a beer bottle whilst posting, no relevance to the post quoted.
As for the make up of the UK population 25% might be right, it's supposedly 30% in Australia, if immigration is so detrimental, it must be really shit out there.

 

[Baldseagull]

The winter fuel allowance that was scrapped by Reeves was circa £2bn so it would be true to say that if the cost was taken out the 3bn budget for housing illegals, that benefit for pensioners could continue?

Sounds like a popular political move to me.

A large portio of the cost of Housing asylum seekers comes out of the Foreign aid budget, at least it did under Tories. So if all you care about is the UK, spending money in the UK rather than overseas, is economically beneficial.

 

[British Bulldog]

There's no middle ground with racism or with violent rioting. None. It's as big a fallacy as the two tier policing nonsense currently spewing from the far right.

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to. Not right and left wing groups willy waving at each other, riots, counter riots, protests etc etc. All people are doing is winding each other up and it's not going to help. Why do you think I asked the mods to close my thread about those poor people being stabbed and killed in Southport? Because it just ends up in yet another Fu**ing binfest between right, left, racist, non racist etc etc etc

 

[Guinness Boy]

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to. Not right and left wing groups willy waving at each other, riots, counter riots, protests etc etc. All people are doing is winding each other up and it's not going to help. Why do you think I asked the mods to close my thread about those poor people being stabbed and killed in Southport? Because it just ends up in yet another Fu**ing binfest between right, left, racist, non racist etc etc etc

I think it’s fair to say that if some drunken idiots hadn’t attacked a mosque in the name of those children the thread probably would have remained on course.

 

[Eric the meek]

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to.

They forfeited the right to be listened to, when they broke the law, rioting, looting, and attacking mosques, on the back of disinformation.

 

[British Bulldog]

What makes you think those “concerns” aren’t being listened to?

We’ve done the arguments about immigration on these threads for years - it goes round in circles and does the very thing you are complaining about - it gets polarised around left v right, racist v non-racist by a minority of posters while the rest seek to have an informed and rational debate.

Seems to me one of the major ‘concerns’ the British people have is how a minority of “concerned” people end up chanting neo-nazi slogans, attacking mosques, the police and burning hotels housing asylum seekers in.

Seems to me people like you and far right racists would rather it just carries on, F*ck the rest of us who just want to get on with life.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Seems to me people like you and far right racists would rather it just carries on, F*ck the rest of us who just want to get on with life.

Just get on with your life then. No one’s making you post on this thread.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to.

From your long history on NSC, I believe you are a genuine person with genuine concerns who hasn't been rioting or violent so let's discuss your concerns

Maybe best to take them one at a time, so what is your biggest concern ?

 

[British Bulldog]

From your long history on NSC, I believe you are a genuine person with genuine concerns who hasn't been rioting or violent so let's discuss your concerns

Maybe best to take them one at a time, so what is your biggest concern ?

The fact that 3 poor children were murdered, many other's stabbed along with people who tried to protect them and people are using the situation to play stupid oneupmanship games to suit their political allegiances.

 

[A1X]

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to.

And yet, as has been pointed out, most of those “genuine concerns” aren’t genuine. So what do you propose happens in that scenario, that the country acts on things which aren’t factually correct but are all about “vibes”?

 

[WATFORD zero]

The fact that 3 poor children were murdered, many other's stabbed along with people who tried to protect them and people are using the situation to play stupid oneupmanship games to suit their political allegiances.

I'm sorry, you've lost me. On a thread about Protests and Riots in lots of places over the last week you said

The only thing I'm concerned about is genuine people having genuine concerns listening to.

So I asked what genuine concerns you were talking about, so that I could understand.

As tragic as the killing and injuring of those three and the other children was and the horrendous effect it must have had on their families and friends, I'm not sure it has any relevance to the riots being discussed on this thread. The relevant thread was (probably quite rightly) closed at your request.

This is your opportunity to voice the genuine concerns that genuine people have relating to the riots. I'm really not trying to be awkward, but if you want people to listen to your genuine concerns, you will need to tell people what your genuine concerns are when asked

 

[London Pompous]

The winter fuel allowance that was scrapped by Reeves was circa £2bn so it would be true to say that if the cost was taken out the 3bn budget for housing illegals, that benefit for pensioners could continue?

Sounds like a popular political move to me.

As popular as giving government contracts to Tory party donors? Although now said donor gives to Reform instead.

I’m shocked to see you’ve become an NSC donor, subsidising the lives of the mods who you say are useless. Is this the price you have to pay for being a proud racist?

 

[crookie]

The evidence is there, but many prefer to ignore it, or just can't be bothered to look for it (quote below from an article in the FT yesterday):

"Immigration grows the economy and has little or no effect on jobs and wages

Increased net migration leads to a larger economy, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the fiscal watchdog. But it has a small and uncertain effect on GDP per capita, depending on the skill levels of migrants and the proportion that are working or in the UK as dependants. For the government, a larger overall economy means public sector net debt will be lower as a share of GDP than otherwise, which potentially increases the chancellor’s room for fiscal manoeuvre come Budget day. Despite the popular view that cutting immigration would drive up wages, multiple academic studies have found no evidence that migration significantly affects rates of pay or employment among native populations, according to Oxford university’s Migration Observatory think-tank."

Does lead to the question why we've had little or no economic growth over the last few years with record high net migration figures circa 5/6/700000 ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Does lead to the question why we've had little or no economic growth over the last few years with record high net migration figures circa 5/6/700000 ?

Covid, Brexit, Political and Economic Incompetence, Ukraine (all the right reasons, not necessarily in the right order)

 

[Hiheidi]

The anti- racism march targeting football fans having a pre match drink.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

The evidence is there, but many prefer to ignore it, or just can't be bothered to look for it (quote below from an article in the FT yesterday):

"Immigration grows the economy and has little or no effect on jobs and wages

Increased net migration leads to a larger economy, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the fiscal watchdog. But it has a small and uncertain effect on GDP per capita, depending on the skill levels of migrants and the proportion that are working or in the UK as dependants. For the government, a larger overall economy means public sector net debt will be lower as a share of GDP than otherwise, which potentially increases the chancellor’s room for fiscal manoeuvre come Budget day. Despite the popular view that cutting immigration would drive up wages, multiple academic studies have found no evidence that migration significantly affects rates of pay or employment among native populations, according to Oxford university’s Migration Observatory think-tank."

All the data quoted are outdated. Brexit gave us some sweeping changes to the migration system, and with the shock of COVID and inflation, a lot of pre-Brexit data is meaningless.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Your mentality of them v's us, you'll never reach middle ground or understanding of people's concerns with that attitude.

That may well be true.

Not sure I want to understand the mentality of racist rioters, if I'm honest, though.

They have defined themselves as 'them' as far as I'm concerned.

Do you really think that just listening to these people will make things better?
They failed to get their saviour, Farage, into power and are now just acting up.
They don't believe in democracy because they don't accept its outcome.

Obviously I have no traction in national politics, so I'm not sure my 'listening' will help.
And....something tells me that if Starmer announces he wants to listen to the concerns of the rioters many stomachs will turn, and he will be attacked - from the right- for being weak.

Can you see a solution that would involve making the rioters happy?