[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[sydney]

The rioters are rioting. They are not seeking to have a sensible conversation about immigration, or indeed anything. There is no middle ground.

You think they were previously concerned about being called racist but now no longer care?

Crikey.

Anyway, thanks for explaining to me what @Bulldog thinks.

It all sounds like having a bit of sympathy on behalf of others to me. I see no evidence that they deserve it. All I see is entitled wankers having some rioty fun.

I also think that people who have sympathy with the rioters might consider examining their own attitudes. Think about the sequence of events here: teenager born in Wales with no Muslim antecedents murders children; white people go on anti Muslim racist rampage attacking the police. Why on earth would anyone have any sympathy with these rioters? Unless they shared their attitudes a bit. Just a tiny bit maybe, but a bit.

Look at old @sydney ranting about Muslims and paedophiles again. I mean what the actual f*** does this have to do with anything?

Anyway, I'm now so angry I am going to throw a brick through the windows of Iceland in town. No doubt I can count on you to speak up on my behalf, and I'm sure that @Bulldog will be along soon to meet me half way.

where ....? i thought i was careful not to mention anything about Muslims specifically, to allay chaps like you saying things like this

 

[BadFish]

thanks mate , i really can't be bothered .......the fact is there are hundreds if vids of both sides of the argument doing the wrong thing , i find it rather amusing that people from Dorset , Mid -Sussex , Faversham , worthing and the like don't have a problem with mass , illegal immigration ......why would they ....?? Anyway as someone else has said , this subject makes people tense and in a lot of cases downright angry so i'll apologise for being rude , i'm a believer in the divide and conquer manifest and i have fallen into the net .....all the best UTA :

There isn't mass illegal immigration!

You can argue that immigration as a whole is too high but illegal immigration (undocumented persons sits at between 400,000 and 1.2 million depending on your source - obviously as they are in documented it is hard to count them.

Perhaps you are incorrectly labelling asylum seekers as illegal immigrants? These are known as irregular arrivals and their were 38,500 odd in the last recorded year.

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending March 2024

www.gov.uk

Conflating these important distinctions does the cause no good and makes it very hard to pin down people's actual concerns.

 

[sydney]

There isn't mass illegal immigration!

You can argue that immigration as a whole is too high but illegal immigration (undocumented persons sits at between 400,000 and 1.2 million depending on your source - obviously as they are in documented it is hard to count them.

Perhaps you are incorrectly labelling asylum seekers as illegal immigrants? These are known as irregular arrivals and their were 38,500 odd in the last recorded year.

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending March 2024

www.gov.uk

Conflating these important distinctions does the cause no good and makes it very hard to pin down people's actual concerns.

ok , so 800k( we'll take an average) "asylum seekers" to be housed and fed while their cases are prepared and heard , thats a fair few GBP's that have to be found every week no...?? how long can it be maintained...?? Given that we've already had a good 3 years of it , at 1500 quid a week thats 180 billion quid ....lotta money , and people in Britain wonder why petrol , food , heating etc. is so expensive , taxed to the hilt to pay for it.

 

[BadFish]

ok , so 800k( we'll take an average) "asylum seekers" to be housed and fed while their cases are prepared and heard , thats a fair few GBP's that have to be found every week no...?? how long can it be maintained...?? Given that we've already had a good 3 years of it , at 1500 quid a week thats 180 billion quid ....lotta money , and people in Britain wonder why petrol , food , heating etc. is so expensive , taxed to the hilt to pay for it.

Nope - You are looking at the figures for undocumented persons -https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ The figures are for the estimated numbers in the UK at the moment not anually.

From the website linked here are their suggestions for dealing with these numbers.

What needs to change?​

The UK is an outlier compared to countries in the region. We provide comparatively few routes for people living established lives here to regularise their status. This means more people are made undocumented and forced to live on the margins of society. In contrast, countries like France, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland provide clear and affordable routes to regularisation for people who have worked or put down roots.

The UK Government must ensure that undocumented people can regularise and maintain their status. We need a simplified, affordable route to regularisation for undocumented people, to replace the lengthy and expensive seven-year, half-life and 20-year routes that currently exist. A five-year route would provide a simple and clear route back to secure status for people who have been forced out of it, and a realistic, permanent solution for people who have built their lives here.

In addition, the ability to maintain the right to stay in the UK should not depend on whether someone can afford the fees. The UK’s immigration fees are far higher than in most comparable countries, and continue to increase. Immigration fees should be set no higher than the cost of processing an application.

Finally, birthright citizenship must be reinstated so that all children born in the UK are automatically British. This would prevent the injustice of young people whose only home is the UK living under the threat of deportation.

The numbers for Asylum Seekers (not sure why they need inverted commas, it is what they are) are the numbers for irregular entries.

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals, 28% fewer than in the year ending March 2023, and 81% of these arrived by small boats.

Still a large number but since signing up to the UN Refugee Convention, like all other countries the UK has a responsibility to take its fair share.

In 2023, the UK ranked fifth in the absolute number of asylum claims received when compared to EU+ countries. But when adjusted for population size, it falls to 20th place.1 July 2024

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migration-to-the-uk-asylum/#:~:text=In 2023, the UK ranked,it falls to 20th place.

So can we agree that there is no 'mass illegal immigration' for "people from Dorset , Mid -Sussex , Faversham , worthing and the like" to not have a problem with?

To address the cost of asylum seekers, I would suggest that processing them quickly would save a lot of money on housing a food for them. It would also get the genuine ones (about 75-80% I believe) into the work force to fill the vacancies needed and crucially paying for themselves and paying tax. You have to wonder why the Conservatives have chosen not to do this for the last 4 years, or why people so passionate about the 'migrant problem' have consistently voted for a government who have spent so much money slowing the process down. INcluding a disasterous and illegal finacial white elephant of trying to send the poor bugger to Rwanda.

Surely a better solution to trying to burn down the buildings housing the poor bastards?

 

[abc]

Slightly confused with this.

You are fully agreeing with GB who rightly says there is no middle ground between being a racist or non-racist yet you say we need to accept that anyone that shares the violent and racist views of the rioters, in part or as a whole, are right, in order to move forward?

I think it is a confusing process, as it must have been when murderers on both sides of the Northern Ireland troubles were effectively forgiven. The peace process put aside the concept of who or what was ‘right’ in order to find a middle ground that moved everyone forward from decades of hate and violence. Similarly in Rwanda (genocide) and South Africa (apartheid).

Justice through the courts must prevail in the current situation but if we want to become a society without racism, bigotry etc then we also need to put aside some of our own convictions about what is right or wrong in order to address the causes.

By so doing we can hope to eliminate the source of oxygen that enables the EDF and Farage to breath and be heard.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

thanks mate , i really can't be bothered .......the fact is there are hundreds if vids of both sides of the argument doing the wrong thing , i find it rather amusing that people from Dorset , Mid -Sussex , Faversham , worthing and the like don't have a problem with mass , illegal immigration ......why would they ....?? Anyway as someone else has said , this subject makes people tense and in a lot of cases downright angry so i'll apologise for being rude , i'm a believer in the divide and conquer manifest and i have fallen into the net .....all the best UTA :

We don't have mass illegal immigration. That's why.

 

[Justice]

so you make a few bob out of them then, touch

One more time I’ve been maintaining my clients properties for the last 20 years.
How is it a touch doing my job?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is it the singer from Spandau Ballet?
Who is he, I keep meaning to ask?

Former Japan bass player, Mick Karn, RIP.

 

[Hamilton]

ok , so 800k( we'll take an average) "asylum seekers" to be housed and fed while their cases are prepared and heard , thats a fair few GBP's that have to be found every week no...?? how long can it be maintained...?? Given that we've already had a good 3 years of it , at 1500 quid a week thats 180 billion quid ....lotta money , and people in Britain wonder why petrol , food , heating etc. is so expensive , taxed to the hilt to pay for it.

800k asylum seekers. What are you on about! This is why the public is so ill informed. It’s misinformation spread by people like you.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

ok , so 800k( we'll take an average) "asylum seekers" to be housed and fed while their cases are prepared and heard , thats a fair few GBP's that have to be found every week no...?? how long can it be maintained...?? Given that we've already had a good 3 years of it , at 1500 quid a week thats 180 billion quid ....lotta money , and people in Britain wonder why petrol , food , heating etc. is so expensive , taxed to the hilt to pay for it.

Which is obviously bollocks.

The annual cost for the whole of the NHS is 'only' £164 billion:

Health and care finance tracker

As we head towards an election, Nuffield Trust is tracking the NHS’s financial health and putting it into context with recent spending and funding trends.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk

And we spend 'only' £57 billion on defence

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8175/

A more realistic cost of housing asylum seekers? £3 billion.

Housing asylum seekers in hotels costs around £8 million a day - Full Fact

The Prime Minister appeared to understate the cost when claiming in local TV interviews that £5-6 million a day is spent on hotels for “illegal migrants”.

fullfact.org

Anyway, I have told you a million billion times that you render your arguments useless by exaggerating.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Brit who retweeted “Ali Al-Shakati was the suspect. He was an asylum seeker who came to the UK by boat last year and was on an MI6 watch list. If this is true, then all hell is about to break loose” was Cheshire businesswoman Bernie Spofforth.

Preemptive, she’s gone to The Times and The Scum to plead her “mistake”. Arrested this week.

A predictable background of trying to build an anti vax, anti lockdowns and climate change denying following, she’s appeared on GB News in the past.

[In the Telegraph etc today].

Apparently she was used by Julia Hartley-Brewer, Neil Oliver and Dan Wooton as 'an expert' on their various shows. Who would've thunk it

 

[WATFORD zero]

reality ...?? the situation..?? the figures on some of these graphics are highly questionable , for instance a graphic above displays that currently only 25% of the population of the country were not born in the UK , i find that quite hard to believe as i do the graphic that displays the number of people living in a single dwelling by ethnicity , you can do a lot with averages.

Well so you should syd, because it's less than 15%, but just carry on spreading all these lies regardless

Sonny's Letter was and is a stunning expose of the grief caused by police brutality on the Caribbean communities of the 60's , 70's , 80's. And a beautiful , haunting track musically also.

And congratulations, a post without a lie (eventually)

 

[darkwolf666]

Former Japan bass player, Mick Karn, RIP.

He teamed up with Midge Ure for the single, After A Fashion, one of my favourite 80s tracks.

 

[sydney]

Which is obviously bollocks.

The annual cost for the whole of the NHS is 'only' £164 billion:

Health and care finance tracker

As we head towards an election, Nuffield Trust is tracking the NHS’s financial health and putting it into context with recent spending and funding trends.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk

And we spend 'only' £57 billion on defence

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8175/

A more realistic cost of housing asylum seekers? £3 billion.

Housing asylum seekers in hotels costs around £8 million a day - Full Fact

The Prime Minister appeared to understate the cost when claiming in local TV interviews that £5-6 million a day is spent on hotels for “illegal migrants”.

fullfact.org

Anyway, I have told you a million billion times that you render your arguments useless by exaggerating.

@Harry Wilson's tackle , the AVERAGE duration of an Asylum hearing is 3 years in Australia with leave to appeal , some cases can go on for 5 yrs or longer so its simple maths 800,000 an average of the estimated numbers above ( some less scrupulous channels have put the number at over 2.5 million , another story) say it costs 1000 GBP's a week ( i allowed 1500 originally) and lets give them the 3 year average so thats 156 weeks ......that figure comes to 124,800,000,000 GBP ... it's just a matter of maths really ....if you want to say the amount of people who have arrived on boats is only 200k then it's still 31, 200,000,000so to say the cost is 3,000,000,000 is pure bollocks unless they are being housed and fed for 100 GBP a week.....:: shirley...?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He teamed up with Midge Ure for the single, After A Fashion, one of my favourite 80s tracks.

Sadly he died of cancer in 2011. I was astonished he hadn't been sought out as a major session bassist. But it seemed he lived the life of an artist, sculpting and whatnot.

 

[sydney]

Well so you should syd, because it's less than 15%, but just carry on spreading all these lies regardless



And congratulations, a post without a lie (eventually)

me questioning graphs is not a lie ......enjoy your ploughman's in the beer garden at your local this afternoon.

 

[cunning fergus]

Which is obviously bollocks.

The annual cost for the whole of the NHS is 'only' £164 billion:

Health and care finance tracker

As we head towards an election, Nuffield Trust is tracking the NHS’s financial health and putting it into context with recent spending and funding trends.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk

And we spend 'only' £57 billion on defence

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8175/

A more realistic cost of housing asylum seekers? £3 billion.

Housing asylum seekers in hotels costs around £8 million a day - Full Fact

The Prime Minister appeared to understate the cost when claiming in local TV interviews that £5-6 million a day is spent on hotels for “illegal migrants”.

fullfact.org

Anyway, I have told you a million billion times that you render your arguments useless by exaggerating.

The winter fuel allowance that was scrapped by Reeves was circa £2bn so it would be true to say that if the cost was taken out the 3bn budget for housing illegals, that benefit for pensioners could continue?

Sounds like a popular political move to me.

 

[cunning fergus]

Nope - You are looking at the figures for undocumented persons -https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ The figures are for the estimated numbers in the UK at the moment not anually.

From the website linked here are their suggestions for dealing with these numbers.


The numbers for Asylum Seekers (not sure why they need inverted commas, it is what they are) are the numbers for irregular entries.

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals, 28% fewer than in the year ending March 2023, and 81% of these arrived by small boats.



So can we agree that there is no 'mass illegal immigration' for "people from Dorset , Mid -Sussex , Faversham , worthing and the like" to not have a problem with?

To address the cost of asylum seekers, I would suggest that processing them quickly would save a lot of money on housing a food for them. It would also get the genuine ones (about 75-80% I believe) into the work force to fill the vacancies needed and crucially paying for themselves and paying tax. You have to wonder why the Conservatives have chosen not to do this for the last 4 years, or why people so passionate about the 'migrant problem' have consistently voted for a government who have spent so much money slowing the process down. INcluding a disasterous and illegal finacial white elephant of trying to send the poor bugger to Rwanda.

Surely a better solution to trying to burn down the buildings housing the poor bastards?

Well, if this headline is true, I have no doubt this will pacify the discontented……….I think the comments are a good indicator of the public consensus.

https://search.app/UyQ9s2gKsAr97h6f9

At least we can see whose side the Government is on.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

@Harry Wilson's tackle , the AVERAGE duration of an Asylum hearing is 3 years in Australia with leave to appeal , some cases can go on for 5 yrs or longer so its simple maths 800,000 an average of the estimated numbers above ( some less scrupulous channels have put the number at over 2.5 million , another story) say it costs 1000 GBP's a week ( i allowed 1500 originally) and lets give them the 3 year average so thats 156 weeks ......that figure comes to 124,800,000,000 GBP ... it's just a matter of maths really ....if you want to say the amount of people who have arrived on boats is only 200k then it's still 31, 200,000,000so to say the cost is 3,000,000,000 is pure bollocks unless they are being housed and fed for 100 GBP a week.....:: shirley...?

You seem to be taking the maximum amount of everything and treating it as the average in your calculations.

If you are going to make calculations on how much tax is spent dealing with asylum seekers you can only use known asylum seekers in the calculation. We don't spend any money on unknown asylum seekers.

And to suggest 2.5 million illegal asylum seekers a year.....

Did you know that it is estimated there are a billion inhabited planets in the universe. However the size of the universe is infinite. This means that the average density of the population of the universe is a finite number divided by infinity. Anything divided by infinity is zero. This means the average population of the universe is zero. This means the actual population of the universe must also be zero. And I didn't even base my calculation on estimates of 'illegal' population which is very certainly lurking out here. You can do anything with maths.

 

[sydney]

800k asylum seekers. What are you on about! This is why the public is so ill informed. It’s misinformation spread by people like you

the only place i discuss this really is on here , spreading misinformation is a tad grand , only other chats had are people who have recently returned from various parts of the country and said it's got to shit ....almost to a man /woman

We don't have mass illegal immigration. That's why.

Bingo..! other parts of the country do have problems with illegal immigrants /asylum seekers , call it/ them what you will