[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[BadFish]

Out in a month

Still enough to screw your job up ( if you work )

Think it will ramp down now. The normal protestors aren't going to risk getting banged up . Even just being there could get you caught in crossfire.

You would think the gov etc has seen the strength of feeling though + the huge numbers . Maybe things will be different in time. Nothing ever gets fixed in a day

The true protestors need to find a way to speak up without the mindless thugs , things then can move forward

Yes, then we can discuss a roadmap towards ending the scourge of Mosques, budget hotels, Greggs and shoeshops.

Oh and church gravestones and the titanic.

 

[happypig]

Class and race has had a factor in justice.
We can hope that this wife of a Tory gets her correct punishment. The evidence looks clear so they would be hard not to giver her a longer sentence here, but I lived long enough to see lighter sentences for the privileged and I'm not the only one to notice that or talk about it.

Speaking from experience of sentencing...
If you've got the resources to employ a decent solicitor/barrister you're going to get your case put in the best possible way. Nothing against duty solicitors and legal aid per se, but there is a range of talent and by "going private" you're getting better representation. Put simply, the solicitor will have more time to look at your case and find all sorts of mitigation to try and lessen the sentence without putting forward spurious nonsense which doesn't help.
There is also the "loss of a good name" factor which is not to be underestimated. Yon tory wifelet will be mixing socially with people who are "well to do" and take a dim view of criminality. Even if she doesn't go inside, she's going to find herself shunned by her peers (some of them who probably share her views but aren't daft enough to voice them publicly).

 

[Baldseagull]

Wow.

It isn't two tier policing. It's understanding that different groups might be best handled in different ways.
At football we don't claim its two tier policing when the away fans are corralled, and the home fans are asked to go home. Or some pubs are off limits for some away fans but not others, the risks different groups present are different.
One group lives there, have had talks with police and said we will keep our boys at home, the other is taking their kids out to shout abuse at hotels.

 

[Zeberdi]

Starmer has lumped anyone and everyone that has concerns about immigration into the far right bucket, that’s simply not true.

Don’t be ridiculous please - that’s simply not true.

Starmer has lumped everyone into a far right ‘bucket’ (did you mean ‘bracket’?) that is using the broad issue of immigration as an excuse to promote an extreme racist agenda both online and through civil disobedience.

The government also has concerns about immigration btw and is taking steps to deal with it by the measures announced in the King’s Speech. The Labour Government has had 30 days, Tories had 14 years to deal with it so hold your horses.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

100%. No one that goes on these "demonstrations", having seen events unfold elsewhere, can complain that people have got the wrong idea about their political views.

And people who have poked their fat heads above the parapet to blame Starmer for the rioting are the worst sort of idiots. Utter fools.

 

[nwgull]

And people who have poked their fat heads above the parapet to blame Starmer for the rioting are the worst sort of idiots. Utter fools.

One of whom is a moderator on NSC

 

[Guinness Boy]

Speaking from experience of sentencing...
If you've got the resources to employ a decent solicitor/barrister you're going to get your case put in the best possible way. Nothing against duty solicitors and legal aid per se, but there is a range of talent and by "going private" you're getting better representation. Put simply, the solicitor will have more time to look at your case and find all sorts of mitigation to try and lessen the sentence without putting forward spurious nonsense which doesn't help.
There is also the "loss of a good name" factor which is not to be underestimated. Yon tory wifelet will be mixing socially with people who are "well to do" and take a dim view of criminality. Even if she doesn't go inside, she's going to find herself shunned by her peers (some of them who probably share her views but aren't daft enough to voice them publicly).

I'd imagine her nursery won't be quite so ethnically mixed next term too. If she's out to run it that is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He'll probably spend about 3 weeks inside (40% of the sentence, minus the time spent on remand).

But he's probably in the sort of job where 3 weeks inside and his mug all over telly and newspapers means he'll lose his job and struggle to find a new one. With a criminal record he can say goodbye to flying to the US to celebrate Trump's re-election.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Out in a month

Still enough to screw your job up ( if you work )

Think it will ramp down now. The normal protestors aren't going to risk getting banged up . Even just being there could get you caught in crossfire.

You would think the gov etc has seen the strength of feeling though + the huge numbers . Maybe things will be different in time. Nothing ever gets fixed in a day

The true protestors need to find a way to speak up without the mindless thugs , things then can move forward

The numbers involved in this really aren't that huge.

Looking at the list/map of places affected, if the incident reported in Darlington on Monday is anything to go by then some of them are just locals standing around asking each other "isn't there meant to be a riot or something going on here?" while a police helicopter flies around overhead for no apparent reason.

 

[nwgull]

Out in a month

Still enough to screw your job up ( if you work )

Think it will ramp down now. The normal protestors aren't going to risk getting banged up . Even just being there could get you caught in crossfire.

You would think the gov etc has seen the strength of feeling though + the huge numbers . Maybe things will be different in time. Nothing ever gets fixed in a day

The true protestors need to find a way to speak up without the mindless thugs , things then can move forward

The numbers aren't great; they're just very vocal and violent. It's certainly a minority if the 14% of Reform voters in the GE is a guide.

 

[BBassic]

Really pleased that one of our perma bores has delivered a very solid century of posts on this thread despite a wobble last night. Yes 100 posts on one subject

Why is posting about one subject weird?

We're all here, most of the time, posting about one subject - the Albion.

 

[Lenny Rider]

We've just been talking in the office about the main catalyst for all this, the shocking events in Southport, but its actually not the illegal immigrant issue, which many have piggy backed on to, as the accused was born in Wales, his Rwandan parents were here legally, he'd even played a young Doctor Who on the Beeb, its the mental health epidemic we now have in this country, and we've had it long before Covid but its has apparently intensified since lock down.

And also perhaps the perception of the Police, apparently when he was playing up in the taxi, the cabbie contemplated central locking the doors and driving him to the Police station, but didn't because he thought the Police wouldn't do anything.

I really don't know what the answer is, never considered myself a NIMBY, but I really hope events in Brighton tonight don't get out of hand, Sussex Police are overstretched and undermanned as it is.

 

[worthingseagull123]

It is amazing that all these people who don't understand the difference between refugee, asylum seekers, immigrants and illegal immigrants are now suddenly experts in the nuance of best practice police operations.

I heard Farage banging on about two tier policing so I assume this is where they are parroting this nonsense from.

It is amazing that all these people who don't understand the difference between refugee, asylum seekers, immigrants and illegal immigrants are now suddenly experts in the nuance of best practice police operations.

I heard Farage banging on about two tier policing so I assume this is where they are parroting this nonsense from.

Few people have any actual informed knowledge on migration matters.

Reading the Daily Mail or Guardian does not make someone an expert.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

The numbers aren't great; they're just very vocal and violent. It's certainly a minority if the 14% of Reform voters in the GE is a guide.

Even compared to the number of Reform voters in the election, the numbers involved in all this will be tiny.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It is amazing that all these people who don't understand the difference between refugee, asylum seekers, immigrants and illegal immigrants are now suddenly experts in the nuance of best practice police operations.

I heard Farage banging on about two tier policing so I assume this is where they are parroting this nonsense from.

What's the issue here? The cop said he met with community leaders and businesses? What am I missing...why was this prefixed with a 'WOW'?

 

[Triggaaar]

Time will tell on Southport and Gillingham won’t it, my guess is the establishment and media will coalesce around mental illness, but as I have referenced I don’t trust them to be truthful with motives.

A terrorist incident would mean he was working for a terrorist organisation. That organisation would claim it. It's hardly going to be ISIS if he's a Christian. So how do you think you would describe him differently to the media?

Intuitively speaking, the attack on the soldier in Gillingham does not feel like the act of a random violence by a loon but a targeted attack.

Again, if that's a terrorist attack, the organisation will claim it. Like the 7/7 bombings were terrorist attacks, and reported a such. I'm not sure why you think the media don't say when it's a terrorist attack.

Mental illness is now a convenient mechanism for distraction

So what do you think it is? If terrorism, who is the organisation?

Similarly Huw used it as a means to explain his degeneracy

Huw is a repulsive criminal. He tried to hide his crimes and lied. I'm not sure what your point is there. You're pointing out that criminals lie, but the authorities followed it up, found him guilty, and told us the real truth behind his sorded actions

Let’s be clear the issue of immigration is complicated, and there are aspects of it which are positive and negative. Unfortunately we do not have politicians that are honest enough to accept there are negatives.

We do, they are trying to stop the illegal immigration.

For the establishment the narrative is that there are only unbridled positives.

You're being silly. If what you said was true we wouldn't have tried to send them to Rwanda.

This is not reconciling with the lived experience of the public, and politicians and institutions that ignore that position are responsible for building the up pressure in those areas which are most pent up about how factors connected to “immigration” is affecting their lives.

No, it's the social media influencers who lie and fool people like you who are responsible.

For example, the housing of illegal in migrants in hotels is madness, and toxic

It does seem like an odd choice. What do you think would be a better solution?

Starmer has lumped anyone and everyone that has concerns about immigration into the far right bucket, that’s simply not true.

No, he's only referring to the current riots. Starmer himself wants to stop the boats.

 

[jcdenton08]

We've just been talking in the office about the main catalyst for all this, the shocking events in Southport, but its actually not the illegal immigrant issue, which manned have piggy backed on to, as the accused was born in Wales, his Rwandan parents were here legally, he'd even played a young Doctor Who on the Beeb, its the mental health epidemic we now have in this country, and we've had it long before Covid but its has apparently intensified since lock down.

And also perhaps the perception of the Police, apparently when he was playing up in the taxi, the cabbie contemplated central locking the doors and driving him to the Police station, but didn't because he thought the Police wouldn't do anything.

I really don't know what the answer is, never considered myself a NIMBY, but I really hope events in Brighton tonight don't get out of hand, Sussex Police are overstretched and undermanned as it is.

I have to say, he’s almost certainly absolutely correct. The police changed policy a few decades ago largely on the advice of the CPS. Police were much more proactive in preventing crime and deterrents - Bobbies on the beat, faster response times. The trouble is the CPS often didn’t have any evidence to prosecute because the police had been too efficient! Constant funding cuts obviously have made a massive difference too.

Nowadays the police are entirely reactive and will only attend/take any action on their terms. It’s much easier for them to police “hate crimes” on X than help someone who’s had their phone snatched, been randomly assaulted with no serious injury, or had their house burgled.

In fact between me and two friends, we’ve had all of the above happen to us and the police offered practically zero interest in any occasion. In fact, it took a week for the police to come out and take a statement about the house burglary. With the assault despite having CCTV and bystander mobile phone footage and clear images of the perpetrators faces, no further action because they can’t identify them.

So yeah, I have no faith in the police to assist me if I need them. Zero.

The cabbie has absolutely spot on.

 

[BadFish]

What's the issue here? The cop said he met with community leaders and businesses? What am I missing...why was this prefixed with a 'WOW'?

I think you have to accept that the words posted in the tweet mean what the tweeter has decided they mean.

 

[BadFish]

Few people have any actual informed knowledge on migration matters.

I agree, yet so many people speak so confidently on the subject. Consistently exposing themselves as not having a clue what they are on about.

Reading the Daily Mail or Guardian does not make someone an expert.

Reading the Daily Mail certainly does the opposite, The Guardian would push you a little closer to expert status, the United Nation Refugee Convention closer still. Other than that you probably need to read and understand all the legislation around the subject and probably more to become an expert.

I don't think we need people to be experts though, a passing understanding would do.

 

[Mustafa II]

I have a horrible feeling that there has been a culture war brewing both here and all around Europe for decades now, and it is finally rearing its ugly head.

Immigration is great when executed well, but I think when a country brings in too many undesirable people who commit terrible crimes, it is inevitably going to result in a rise of nationalism, particularly amongst working class people who fail to see the bigger picture.

But seeing reactionary groups such as the 'muslim defence league' is what troubles me the most. It could become a full blown culture war, where normal people start getting affected, with many being dragged in and picking sides.

Hopefully this far right/far left/ideological rioting doesn't escalate any further... but with the stagnant economy and visibly lower quality of living standards, it has been typical in history for people to look for groups of people to blame.