[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[A1X]

 

[A1X]

Kier Starmer is to blame for this. His speech was so badly judged. No recognition at all of the reasonable worries a lot of people have, just an attack on their right to protest. Seems more bothered about defending the perpetrators than our children.

 

[spence]

Jail time for the idiots knocking a copper of his motorbike and attacking him. Absolute scum.

 

[Holoflux]

I’m fascinated. …
How is KS to blame?
Exactly which part of his speech was badly judged?
What are your “reasonable worries”?

No?…
Nothing?..

I’ll go with my initial assumption that you’re a f***ing moron then.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Mind boggling that in the context of these riots by far right thugs, deliberately and violently targeting innocent people and groups, that you worry about people being called racist.

I do not worry about individuals being called racists if that is what they are. What should concern many is the alienation felt by those who would be considered Mr or Mrs Average in normal times. It is the constant and derogatory terminology aimed at large parts of those concerned about the changing face of the United Kingdom that allows the uglier side of traditionalists to come to the fore. The woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored, and there hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens that feel the same. By using terminology like ‘far right thug’ and aiming it at all and sundry who feel the same just emboldens the more extreme elements. KS can say that he was not targeting people like this woman, but like it or not, that is how she feels. The violence has to be stopped, but a mature discussion needs to be facilitated to stop the issue just festering and becoming worse. And the insults from the know alls need to stop too.

 

[stewart12]

She was in my year at BHASVIC

 

[Zeberdi]

Kier Starmer is to blame for this. His speech was so badly judged. No recognition at all of the reasonable worries a lot of people have, just an attack on their right to protest. Seems more bothered about defending the perpetrators than our children.

Codswallop.

See my post above. These riots are not legitimate “protest“ and I applaud the PM for not seeing them as such.

No one has an absolute right to ”Protest”, not even in Human Rights law.

And no one has a fcuking right to target Muslims, mosques, make nazi salutes, terrorise vulnerable people (yes ethnic minorities, people in asylum hostels, people recovering from the trauma of having their children stabbed etc). Nor do they have a “right” to loot shops, physically attack the police and commit violent assault on the rule of law.

Well done Sir Kier Starmer for having the backbone to do what the Tory Government failed to do - stand up to far right hatred and for recognising that we don’t need further legislation restricting civil liberties (so that nice lady can still go and stand peacefully holding her banner without fear of arrest) but a more coordinated police response and to act swiftly in arresting people engaged in criminal behaviour.

Well done to all the police - a big thank you for putting yourselves in the line of fire at risk of injury to yourselves to help restore law and order.

 

[Cordwainer]

She was in my year at BHASVIC

I like the cut of her jib.
Would wager that most of the far wrongs couldn’t spell immigrant let alone understand the issues they are luzzing bricks around in ‘support’ of. Pin d1cks wanting a ruck and jumping on any old cause that facilitates it.

 

[pocketseagull]

. The woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored.

I don't understand the concern of labelling this very obviously racist person a racist.

 

[rogersix]

I must have been out of the country when the UK suffered 7/7. Borough Market, Manchester Arena, Westminster Bridge and others, but i am no DCI Frost but there could be a link as to who's behind this, but i hold my hands up to the more enlightened on this forum.

i see what you did there, sneaky

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

All so desperately depressing. We need a strong centre ground more than ever in these trying times. Everyone just seems to go far left or right. As for the rioters, they need to be lined up and shot in the ass if I had it my way.

 

[rogersix]

Kier Starmer is to blame for this. His speech was so badly judged. No recognition at all of the reasonable worries a lot of people have, just an attack on their right to protest. Seems more bothered about defending the perpetrators than our children.

blimey

 

[Eeyore]

I do not worry about individuals being called racists if that is what they are. What should concern many is the alienation felt by those who would be considered Mr or Mrs Average in normal times. It is the constant and derogatory terminology aimed at large parts of those concerned about the changing face of the United Kingdom that allows the uglier side of traditionalists to come to the fore. The woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored, and there hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens that feel the same. By using terminology like ‘far right thug’ and aiming it at all and sundry who feel the same just emboldens the more extreme elements. KS can say that he was not targeting people like this woman, but like it or not, that is how she feels. The violence has to be stopped, but a mature discussion needs to be facilitated to stop the issue just festering and becoming worse. And the insults from the know alls need to stop too.

I wouldn't use the term 'far right'. It is a political term and can be used in an expedient way. The character traits, convictions and emotional responses of individuals exist in another dimension. People cannot be defined by a political ideology, despite this being the only way that many delineate within society. It is an outworking of the struggle for identity. Or more, perhaps, a desire to identify others. If I placed 100 quotes from Hitler on here, without credit, and asked how many folk believed were fair and accurate, nearly everyone would agree at least a small percentage of them. This is because humans are far more complex than a political description can contain them. A person who despises other races and subscribes to a belief in superior culture may also subscribe to Keynsian policy, support public ownership, and believe in a more even distribution of wealth. It is not, for the most part, a left v right thing.

You say that the woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored. I would suggest that she may be confused as to what her concerns are and is perhaps swept up in the 'two minute hate'. This is not to suggest she is a bigot in any way, and Mike Stuchberry's response is merely and endorsement of my opening paragraph. Many in society have concerns about it's direction, but I, like many, would argue that we live in the most enlightened, compassionate and free thinking society since, well, I've only been around for 50 odd years.

If those attending these gatherings were asked why they were demonstrating the answers would vary, as would their solutions. But the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of folk are not seeing fit to be a part of it. This is not out of a sense of powerlessness, but more that the forces behind these gatherings are seen as malevolent. And that would be correct.

The question I would ask you, and remember I defended a post of yours last night despite me feeling we have different takes on a lot of things (yet probably have mostly common ground on vales and standards), is what are your concerns of Mr & Mrs Average that you feel need to be aired ? I say that to begin the mild discourse you seek. I think all of us are a lot closer than we think.

 

[BadFish]

All so desperately depressing. We need a strong centre ground more than ever in these trying times. Everyone just seems to go far left or right. As for the rioters, they need to be lined up and shot in the ass if I had it my way.

To be fair, most people do meet in the middle ground. It's just the outliers are noisy and dramatic and prominent in the media and social media. Farage is a good example of this, a total outlier (and grifter and fraud) who has been on Question Time more than his profile warrants.

Us reasonable and sensible people are not interesting enough to get the exposure necessary.

Truth, accuracy and accountability are becoming a rarer commodity.

 

[rogersix]

I do not worry about individuals being called racists if that is what they are. What should concern many is the alienation felt by those who would be considered Mr or Mrs Average in normal times. It is the constant and derogatory terminology aimed at large parts of those concerned about the changing face of the United Kingdom that allows the uglier side of traditionalists to come to the fore. The woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored, and there hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens that feel the same. By using terminology like ‘far right thug’ and aiming it at all and sundry who feel the same just emboldens the more extreme elements. KS can say that he was not targeting people like this woman, but like it or not, that is how she feels. The violence has to be stopped, but a mature discussion needs to be facilitated to stop the issue just festering and becoming worse. And the insults from the know alls need to stop too.

but how do you reason with these far right thugs, as many of them can't understand english

 

[Zeberdi]

I wouldn't use the term 'far right'. It is a political term and can be used in an expedient way. The character traits, convictions and emotional responses of individuals exist in another dimension. People cannot be defined by a political ideology, despite this being the only way that many delineate within society. It is an outworking of the struggle for identity. If I placed 100 quotes from Hitler on here, without credit, and asked how many folk believed were fair and accurate, nearly everyone would agree at least a small percentage of them. This is because humans are far more complex than a political description can contain them. A person who despises other races and subscribes to a belief in superior culture may also subscribe to Keynsian policy, support public ownership, and believe in a more even distribution of wealth. It is not, for the most part, a left v right thing.

You say that the woman in the post below no doubt feels her concerns are brushed aside and ignored. I would suggest that she may be confused as to what her concerns are and is perhaps swept up in the 'two minute hate'. This is not to suggest she is a bigot in any way, and Mike Stuchberry's response is merely and endorsement of my opening paragraph. Many in society have concerns about it's direction, but I, like many, would argue that we live in the most enlightened, compassionate and free thinking society since, well, I've only been around for 50 odd years.

If those attending these gatherings were asked why they were demonstrating the answers would vary, as would their solutions. But the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of folk are not seeing fit to be a part of it. This is not out of a sense of powerlessness, but more that the forces behind these gatherings are seen as malevolent. And that would be correct.

The question I would ask you, and remember I defended a post of yours last night despite me feeling we have different takes on a lot of things (yet probably have mostly common ground on vales and standards), is what are your concerns of Mr & Mrs Average that you feel need to be aired ? I say that to begin the mild discourse you seek. I think all of us are a lot closer than we think.

It’s really not helpful to conflate those that ‘attend’ the gatherings (like the nice but probably misguided 59 year old, Tracy Dee, Grandmother, mother) - with those that have been actively engaging in criminal and violent thuggery. The Prime Minister’s speech was very much directed at the latter.

The tweeting of this woman was blatantly aimed at ‘gentrifying’ the essence of what has been going on in recents days and divert criticism away from far right violence - which clearly isn’t anything close to legal and peaceful protest.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Truth, accuracy and accountability are becoming a rarer commodity.

This is so true. The news media used to filter out the real crack pots, both far left and far right and you didn't get to hear all their crack pot ideas. Now Social media exposes all of the crack pot ideas and those ideas are no longer filtered for the main stream.

 

[Zeberdi]

To be fair, most people do meet in the middle ground. It's just the outliers are noisy and dramatic and prominent in the media and social media

Us reasonable and sensible people are not interesting enough to get the exposure necessary.

Truth, accuracy and accountability are becoming a rarer commodity.

Yep, those of us moderates, voicing non-polarised, informed and balanced POV and taking care to fact check content, get far less attention on social media than those posting strong reactionary views to either side of the political/social spectrum.

Like the old printed journalism - there’s never a headline story in mediocrity and serious debate, just sensationalism, shock value and extremism.

 

[Eeyore]

It’s really not helpful to conflate those that ‘attend’ the gatherings (like the nice but probably misguided 59 year old, Tracy Dee, Grandmother, mother) - with those that have been actively engaging in criminal and violent thuggery. The Prime Minister’s speech was very much directed at the latter.

The tweeting of this woman was blatantly aimed at ‘gentrifying’ the essence of what has been going on in recents days and divert criticism away from far right violence - which clearly isn’t anything close to legal and peaceful protest.

It is violence, with no reason or justification. But @wellquickwoody has identified something here that needs to be put forward. And I'm with him on that.

My point remains that, whilst the far right may approve of what they see, and have stirred it up, I am not convinced that this is a political thing in it's application. The labeling needs to stop- excepting that of thuggery and mindless vandals. To say 'far right violence' is to simplify a deeper ailment within society.

 

[BadFish]

This is so true. The news media used to filter out the real crack pots, both far left and far right and you didn't get to hear all their crack pot ideas. Now Social media exposes all of the crack pot ideas and those ideas are no longer filtered for the main stream.

The main stream media too seems uncommitted to challenging populist lies.

The BBC inviting on guests to give balance to minority views like they are equal with truth is one example.

Social media holds no accountability for people, they can post lies and half truths with ckmllete impunity and still gain follows and likes from user unwilling or unable to do their own fact checking. The boxing things is a good example of that, comment after comments about men fighting women and parroted lines from the trans debate on disengenuous post after disengenuous post.