[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[portlock seagull]

Prat.
What's he banging on about Palestine for too?

Yes, that struck me as odd too. Might as well have added “Archer Out” for all the relevance it added.

 

[aolstudios]

Yes, that struck me as odd too. Might as well have added “Archer Out” for all the relevance it added.

Well, exactly

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Speaking of bellends…..

 

[Justice]

Ooh look at you shopping at Waitrose Was he smiling because he had just got his shopping cheaper at Tesco?

Ooh look at you shopping at Waitrose Was he smiling because he had just got his shopping cheaper at Tesco?

I only wanted a packet of cigs i’m an M&S food hall man

 

[Nobby]

Speaking of bellends…..

What a snowflake

 

[Machiavelli]

It's rather worse than saying something daft. You can't be using rhetoric like that whoever you are, let alone an elected official, calling for the murder of one's fellow citizens, regardless of how distasteful one might find their views.

Yes, you're right. But I was trying to draw a distinction between what he said and the violent actions perpetrated by the other lot over the past week or so. Because they are not equivalent.

 

[cunning fergus]

Can you please show where starmer lumped anyone and everyone that has concerns about immigration into far right bucket please? You say it is simply not true. It isn’t. That is why starmer did not say it. He called out the rioters not those at home. I will apologise if you can show where he did that but if you can’t then a) you need to apologise and b) stop spreading lies.

Re housing asylum seekers in hotel (they are not illegal immigrants) - this was on the previous government because they stopped processing applications. Expecting years of inaction to be sorted in a few weeks is ridiculous.

I think you know what’s happening, and why the “far right” for the riots moniker is convenient, politicians like to simplify matters to a single digestible message, however life is much more complex. The consequences of migration as the U.K. has experienced in last 10 years or so is no different. I think people like Jonathan Hayes, a Southport businessman stabbed by the Welsh fella has a view that most of the country understand in response to Southport. He is, in my view, the man on the Clapham omnibus.

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Re housing, if we have a housing crisis where rents are high and properties expensive, to suggest the immigration (when running at in excess of 500k pa) isn’t a factor is also ridiculous. Equally, if taxation is running at record levels yet the state picks up the tab for hundreds of thousands people who have put nothing in the pot to stay in hotels, POLITICALLY, regardless of who is in power that is a problem. In this context I fully agree it’s been caused by the Tories. But then, that’s why they were thrown out in July………..over to Labour to sort it out.

 

[Springal]

Re housing, if we have a housing crisis where rents are high and properties expensive, to suggest the immigration (when running at in excess of 500k pa) isn’t a factor is also ridiculous. t.

Can someone explain this to me? How are immigrants affording expensive rents ? And wasn’t the argument high levels of immigrants drove down house prices ?

Is average Joe in Hartlepool or Sunderland really being out priced in the housing market by immigration ?

 

[carlzeiss]

Can someone explain this to me? How are immigrants affording expensive rents ? And wasn’t the argument high levels of immigrants drove down house prices ?

Is average Joe in Hartlepool or Sunderland really being out priced in the housing market by immigration ?

Maybe because they are paid by housing benefit

 

[cunning fergus]

being anti-immigration is right wing - it just is, that's a definition. having a protest against immigration, descending quickly into violence against police or other targets is extreme or "far" from the middle ground of politics. if you want to stop the label far right being attributed to those concerned about immigration, call out against the mob that turn it violent.

As I’m sure you know, the origins of what is left and right wing derives from the Citizens “Parliament” following the French Revolution, the radicals (Jacobins) sat on the left, the conservatives (merchant/bourgeois class) on the right.

The modern usage of left and right wing as a mechanism of determining political intent and motive is clumsy at best and misleading at worst, most people have political views that can be conservative (small or no change) and also radical (profound change).

Accordingly, in the original context of what is left or right wing, (and by way of example) Brexit would be left wing, and in the context of people expressing views to restrict immigration, you could argue in current terms an immediate cessation of immigration would be a radical step towards immigration policy and therefore also left wing.

It’s much better to determine intent through political ideology, international Marxism, as an ideology would support open borders for example, and that is essentially what we had with the Tories (despite their rhetoric) and I suspect the Labour Party will follow suit on more transparent ideological plane.

International Marxism sounds more scary than left wing though……….so we will no doubt stay with the simplistic stuff.

 

[BadFish]

Maybe because they are paid by housing benefit

Who are paid housing benefits?

 

[carlzeiss]

Who are paid housing benefits?

https://www.serco.com/uk/sites/serco-aasc/landlords

 

[Hamilton]

This may have already been posted on this thread.
Jeremy Clarkson has hit the nail on the head with his comments in the paper.

But in case you’ve missed it, he writes….


“When I lived in London’s Notting Hill, working in the media, I was a remainer and so were all my friends. It literally didn’t occur to us, as we sat down there in our agreeable houses eating agreeable food that someone might vote to leave. And I think the same thing is happening again.

“Today, I’m surrounded by farmers and plasterers and brickies and butchers and all I hear, all day long, is that there’s too much immigration. But if they say this out loud, or if they go on a march, they are told by the London elite that they are far-right extremists or racist thugs. For the most part, they’re not. They are just people who know that they have to shut up when the Last Post is played and that a cheese rolling down a hill is funny.

“There was a time you’d have called them the salt of the earth. But Sir Starmer doesn’t seem to have grasped this. He is surrounded by people who see nothing wrong with immigration and he’s got it into his head – as I did with Brexit – that anyone who disagrees with him must be some kind of Trump-nut. The fact is though that four million people voted for Reform. More than that voted for Brexit. And he’s p***ing them off by labelling them as modern-day Hitlers. I therefore suggest that both he and his friends at the BBC calm down the rhetoric or we could be heading for some real trouble.”

I doubt if Clarkson knows what a hammer or a nail is.

No, yet again Clarkson has used a hammer to try and stir up disunity. Maybe he could try to explore why people feel disenfranchised, but that’s too tall a task and not what his paymasters pay him for.

 

[Hamilton]

https://www.serco.com/uk/sites/serco-aasc/landlords

That’s not paying housing benefits.

 

[Bakero]

As I’m sure you know, the origins of what is left and right wing derives from the Citizens “Parliament” following the French Revolution, the radicals (Jacobins) sat on the left, the conservatives (merchant/bourgeois class) on the right.

The modern usage of left and right wing as a mechanism of determining political intent and motive is clumsy at best and misleading at worst, most people have political views that can be conservative (small or no change) and also radical (profound change).

Accordingly, in the original context of what is left or right wing, (and by way of example) Brexit would be left wing, and in the context of people expressing views to restrict immigration, you could argue in current terms an immediate cessation of immigration would be a radical step towards immigration policy and therefore also left wing.

It’s much better to determine intent through political ideology, international Marxism, as an ideology would support open borders for example, and that is essentially what we had with the Tories (despite their rhetoric) and I suspect the Labour Party will follow suit on more transparent ideological plane.

International Marxism sounds more scary than left wing though……….so we will no doubt stay with the simplistic stuff.

Presumably, if we use your dubious 225 year-old definition, any radical, regressive action could be classed as left wing

Send kids back down the mines? Pretty radical so must be left wing.

Tear down all NHS hospitals? Sounds leftist to me.

 

[BadFish]

https://www.serco.com/uk/sites/serco-aasc/landlords

So landlords are paid money for housing asylum seekers? Is that what that link refers to?

 

[Triggaaar]

The French take to the streets when the government tries to raise the pension age

This is what brings Brits to the streets

Britain is a racist country, more than you would ever think.

The largest turnout of people taking to the streets was to stand against the racists.

 

[cunning fergus]

A terrorist incident would mean he was working for a terrorist organisation. That organisation would claim it. It's hardly going to be ISIS if he's a Christian. So how do you think you would describe him differently to the media?




Again, if that's a terrorist attack, the organisation will claim it. Like the 7/7 bombings were terrorist attacks, and reported a such. I'm not sure why you think the media don't say when it's a terrorist attack.



So what do you think it is? If terrorism, who is the organisation?



Huw is a repulsive criminal. He tried to hide his crimes and lied. I'm not sure what your point is there. You're pointing out that criminals lie, but the authorities followed it up, found him guilty, and told us the real truth behind his sorded actions



We do, they are trying to stop the illegal immigration.



You're being silly. If what you said was true we wouldn't have tried to send them to Rwanda.


No, it's the social media influencers who lie and fool people like you who are responsible.



It does seem like an odd choice. What do you think would be a better solution?


No, he's only referring to the current riots. Starmer himself wants to stop the boats.

We will not find common ground so best leave it here, suffice to say time will tell what motivated this man (now he’s 18) and the Gillingham stabbed, however I don’t think Christianity will be in the mix. I’m pretty sure you don’t need to be in a prescribed group to be a terrorist either, especially in the days of online radicalisation, you seem to know more than me.

Huw’s case is only relevant here as another example of political/institutional deceit. Individually of course Huw is reprehensible, however he was indulged and allowed to hide behind mental illness, that “play” is now dead. Only the soft minded will think otherwise, I suspect the mental illness play has been dead for a while, not least following the deaths in Nottingham.

Rwanda didn’t happen for different reasons, but neither did deportations more generally even if they were criminals. Ironically Labour were last in power deportations were running at circa 50k PA, but then in those days they were “illegals” and not “irregulars”. Then again back in those days people speaking out against what was happening were dreadful bigots, and not the far right.

Or maybe that was just for life long Labour Party members.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you're a raving British patriot, you would know which way up to hold a Union Flag, Shirley?
View attachment 186725

That's why they typically favour the St George's Cross

 

[Jim in the West]

Serco also has a huge contract to run hotel accommodation. The last government gave them a 10 year contract back in 2019, which is costing billions. In my experience (when I volunteered with Care4Calais), Serco staff these hotels with inexperienced young people on close to the minimum wage. They then make huge profits (at the taxpayer’s expense), whilst providing crap living conditions for asylum seekers.

It’s a system that needs to be unwound ASAP. Thankfully the new government understands the issues and is assessing asylum claims more efficiently than the last.