Protecting the FA Cup

[colinz]

Cup shocks just aren't the same now. The Leeds exit of 82 places was up there with Newcastle Hereford, Man U Bournemouth, just really just isn't a big deal anymore

A CL spot is really the only fix out there, but it won't happen the PL is just too powerful now

Agreed, what would have been a cup shock 20+ years ago has now almost become a tactical defeat, as a season enters it's business end phase.

It's fast becoming another meaningless competition. Like the one below.
I live a couple of miles from the home ground of the team that finished 3rd in the 2014 World Club Championship.
I've never even bothered to watch them play

Auckland City would struggle to beat the likes of Worthing and Whitehawk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_Club_World_Cup

 

[jamie the seagull]

The Premier League & EFL have both scheduled a full fixture list the week after the FA Cup date.
That does not help.

 

[Superphil]

Why not set up a petition

 

[Gazwag]

Why should a team that wins 7 games get a place in the CL over a side that has got in the top 4 over the course of the season?

If only somebody could come up with an idea for a European competition for cup winners, they could call it the European Cup Winners Cup or something - would give smaller clubs like Everton or West Ham or even SCOTTISH teams the chance for some European silverware.



As I posted on another thread, why not play FA Cup matches on international break weeks, play Saturday with replays on Tuesday/Wednesday

 

[Bold Seagull]

46 game divisions in the Football League don't help.

I think it still has a lot of magic. Nostalgia is a funny thing, as we remember what we want to remember. The quality lower down has got more professional over the years too, most National Conference teams are full time professionals, the standard is better, the playing surfaces are better generally. The matches I have seen have been great. Watch some of that old footage from a mud bath disgrace of a surface 30 odd years ago and you wonder how it was even called football!?

We didn't really make 9 changes. Our midfield is regularly rotated, and we have 2 fullbacks injured. Don't think he had a lot of choice to be honest. BBC make a story out of it because they simply said how many changes from the previous fixture for each side – how many sides these days start with the same lineup in consecutive fixtures? That isn't just the cup, that is squad football for 50+ game seasons. e.g. I think we had 7 changes between the side that went to Preston and then v Cardiff.

 

[GT49er]

Alan Shearer critical of FA Cup team selection as Premier League clubs make changes

Clubs making wholesale changes are "cheating fans" out of an FA Cup run, according to BBC pundit Alan Shearer.

Championship sides facing lower-league opposition rotated players, with Leeds making 10 changes, while Brighton and Newcastle made nine.



Is he right? Has he got a point? Who cares?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38788645

Yes, he has got a point.

 

[narly101]

So the prize fund for winning is £3.4m if you work out the funds from the 3rd round.

http://www.thefa.com/competitions/thefacup/more/prize-fund

Considering the prize of promotion is close to £100m I know which one I'd rather the club fought for. Take the worthwhile note that Maenpaa is now out for 4 weeks with a shoulder injury, and consider who that would have been had we fielded a full squad.....

If we were mid-tabe without a hope of promotion, then I would have expected a stronger side.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Cup shocks just aren't the same now. The Leeds exit of 82 places was up there with Newcastle Hereford, Man U Bournemouth, just really just isn't a big deal anymore

A CL spot is really the only fix out there, but it won't happen the PL is just too powerful now

I actually think by the FA Cup continuing 'as is' it is tainting it's own reputation. If things carry on like this for another 10 years then there will be as many high-profile "shocks" in that time as there have been in the previous 50 years.

I remember when Sutton beat Coventry in 1989 - that was a HUGE shock because Coventry were an established top flight team that had won the cup 2 years earlier. Sure, Leeds are a big club but beating their reserves is like beating a team in the bottom half of Division 1. Mentioning both of those victories in the same breath is demeaning to the Sutton Utd Class of '89.

I feel no pain that the Albion are out of the Cup, just annoyance that our reserve keeper got crocked and relief that we don't have another match that could only serve to impair our promotion charge.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I actually think by the FA Cup continuing 'as is' it is tainting it's own reputation. If things carry on like this for another 10 years then there will be as many high-profile "shocks" in that time as there have been in the previous 50 years.

I remember when Sutton beat Coventry in 1989 - that was a HUGE shock because Coventry were an established top flight team that had won the cup 2 years earlier. Sure, Leeds are a big club but beating their reserves is like beating a team in the bottom half of Division 1. Mentioning both of those victories in the same breath is demeaning to the Sutton Utd Class of '89.

I feel no pain that the Albion are out of the Cup, just annoyance that our reserve keeper got crocked and relief that we don't have another match that could only serve to impair our promotion charge.

Big FA Cup shocks have always concentrated on the top flight getting knocked out, it wasn't headline news if some Div2 side got knocked out, there is just more 24hr sports news to fill, more live games, more highlights and airtime to fill. The National League is a lot stronger than it's ever been, 2 Div 2 teams getting knocked out away from home isn't up there with some of the big shocks, because neither side is a top flight team. You've hit the nail on the head, Coventry were established top flight and won it 2 years previous.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If only somebody could come up with an idea for a European competition for cup winners, they could call it the European Cup Winners Cup or something - would give smaller clubs like Everton or West Ham or even SCOTTISH teams the chance for some European silverware.



As I posted on another thread, why not play FA Cup matches on international break weeks, play Saturday with replays on Tuesday/Wednesday

This is spot on, Why not have round 1 and 2 over the first couple of International break and then round 3 earlier.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Scrap the early qualifying rounds and base entry on league finishing position to get it down to the right number. Would mean less dead rubbers in the lower leagues at the end of the season.

Scrap replays so the blank mid-weeks are not required - Extra time and penalties straight away.

Play the 3rd round before xmas.

Could you not pre-draw the first few rounds?

Then you could do the first few rounds quicker.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This is spot on, Why not have round 1 and 2 over the first couple of International break and then round 3 earlier.

Not sure how that could work in practice? Extra Prelim round was already 6th August, with effectively 6 qualifying rounds by mid October. 1st round was 5th November, 2nd round 3rd December. If you are proposing to bring the 3rd round before the Xmas period, you really would need take out replays, which is part of the beauty of the cup for the minnows looking to earn a lucrative replay is part of what makes it special isn't it?

The first round was already the week before the November international break, so you couldn't have the 2nd round the following week anyway.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Scrap the early qualifying rounds and base entry on league finishing position to get it down to the right number. Would mean less dead rubbers in the lower leagues at the end of the season.

Scrap replays so the blank mid-weeks are not required - Extra time and penalties straight away.

Play the 3rd round before xmas.

May as well just end the FA Cup as it is. The FA Cup IS about the qualifying teams, the preliminary rounds, the first round proper, the gallant replay earned against higher opposition, the glory for a day out at a team you could never usually dream of playing.

What you are outlining is what the Premier League would outline for it. i.e. Money money money, lets make it easier for the big sides to progress. Sorry, not for me. The BEAUTY of the FA Cup are those early rounds, the shear number of teams that enter. Please don't ruin it for the sake of trying to make league football even more dominant.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

May as well just end the FA Cup as it is. The FA Cup IS about the qualifying teams, the preliminary rounds, the first round proper, the gallant replay earned against higher opposition, the glory for a day out at a team you could never usually dream of playing.

What you are outlining is what the Premier League would outline for it. i.e. Money money money, lets make it easier for the big sides to progress. Sorry, not for me. The BEAUTY of the FA Cup are those early rounds, the shear number of teams that enter. Please don't ruin it for the sake of trying to make league football even more dominant.

Completely agree. The FA Cup doesn't begin with the 1st Round. I support my local non league team in the Cup months before the league teams enter the competition. If you take this away then it becomes the League Cup.
The FA Cup is special precisely because the entire pyramid is involved. The likes of Lincoln and Sutton are the big shots to my local team. I don't see what all the angst is about. If clubs don't want to field first teams that's fine. It made no difference to the euphoria of the Lincoln fans we spoke to on the way back to the car on Saturday.

 

[kingcole]

They need to both increase and change the prize money structure.

Firstly, eliminate prize money for going out in the first, second or third rounds. I appreciate this is a little controversial but 3/4 of the teams in the first round are there for their first game, so why reward them for playing one game and losing it.

Although a non league team may have won as many as 6 games to get to the first round and there is an argument they deserve some prize money, the big prize is actually to play a league team.

Once in round one, the focus on the clubs at this level is to make it to round 3 and play a big team. This carrot is bigger than any prize money.

Prize money should be awarded only from round 4 and be much higher than it is now in order to encourage teams to compete harder with more senior quads.

The extra £5500 thats on offer from going out in qualifying round 4 as opposed to the first round proper is tiny.

This would free up a futher £6.5m circa for the later rounds.

4th round pays £250k (up from £90k at a cost of an extra £2.6m)
5th round pays £500k (up form £180k at a cost of an extra £2.6)
6th round pays £750k (up from £360k at a cost of £1.5m)
Semis pay £1m (up from £450k at a cost of £1.1m)
Runner up also pays £1m (only £100k extra but they earn from TV money and others)
Winner gets £2m plus a spot in the Champtions league

This format would need just an extra £1.5m in the prize find and would give the big clubs the incentive to take it seriously. The small clubs dont need an incentive as their prize is playing the big clubs