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[Albion] Premier League 30/9 - 3/10/23



Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
Disagree. Mistakes have always happened on field in football. It was never perfect nor expected to be. Ref says offside. Everyone accepts it and we all get on with the game. VAR was introduced to make ‘correct’ decisions and it has opened a can of worms because ‘correct’ isn’t achievable.
Correct is absolutely achievable with VAR. They have the technology to get it right every time. They can determine who wins swimming, athletics, cycling races when they are separated by an inch or less. They can get VAR right. Competent officials are required. As was shown yesterday, if the idiots had drawn the lines they would have allowed the goals. Same as our disallowed goal at Palace. If they had drawn the line off the right player the goal would have been allowed.
 






Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
TBH I'm not sure, but that would be a preferable situation to having the wrong decision made after a several minute wait, for a convoluted process to pan out that should supposedly prevent wrong decisions being made.

VAR would be beneficial only if things like this didn't happen. As they do the pros nowhere near outweigh the cons.
Remember our AEK match? Ref waved away 2 penalties. Competent, Spanish, VAR official corrected both errors.
 




Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,883
Almería
But they are meant to check every goal. Otherwise they are relying on the lino to make the correct call. That explanation is illogical and contravenes their stated process.

I think they checked but thought that they were confirming the goal should stand. The ref thought they were confirming that it was offside.
 




Silverhatch

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
4,680
Preston Park
Correct is absolutely achievable with VAR. They have the technology to get it right every time. They can determine who wins swimming, athletics, cycling races when they are separated by an inch or less. They can get VAR right. Competent officials are required. As was shown yesterday, if the idiots had drawn the lines they would have allowed the goals. Same as our disallowed goal at Palace. If they had drawn the line off the right player the goal would have been allowed.
There is no technology in VAR. Technology is possible but it will require dedicated cameras, sensors and specialist software (including AI) to take any human interpretation out of it. Some more people interpreting the same images by drawing lines is NOT technology.
 


Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
PGMOL are not saying otherwise. They checked the goal. They have said they didn't check the offside more closely because they thought the on-field decision was a goal and when they looked at the images it was clearly onside so no need to draw the lines etc.

This is a breakdown in communication between the on field ref and the VAR room. You'd have thought with around 10 officials now involved in each game one of them would have noticed the mistake before it was too late to reverse the decision.
It's never too late to reverse the decision. The ref simply stops the match and awards the goal. If they can award a penalty for Man U after the final whistle they can stop the match and award the Liverpool goal.
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
Correct is absolutely achievable with VAR. They have the technology to get it right every time. They can determine who wins swimming, athletics, cycling races when they are separated by an inch or less. They can get VAR right. Competent officials are required. As was shown yesterday, if the idiots had drawn the lines they would have allowed the goals. Same as our disallowed goal at Palace. If they had drawn the line off the right player the goal would have been allowed.
Would you introduce a new testing machine into a hospital without competent technicians to use it ? One is rather dependent upon the other. People cannot keep shouting at the operators unless they can suggest exactly who has shown they are able to use it.
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
There is no technology in VAR. Technology is possible but it will require dedicated cameras, sensors and specialist software (including AI) to take any human interpretation out of it. Some more people interpreting the same images by drawing lines is NOT technology.
Of course there is technology. There are video replays, freezeframes and a machine that draws the lines parallel to the goal lines from the point the official clicks on. Those lines can then be dragged across the freezeframe with a mouse. The officials don't draw straight lines with a magic marker.
 
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Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
Would you introduce a new testing machine into a hospital without competent technicians to use it ? One is rather dependent upon the other. People cannot keep shouting at the operators unless they can suggest exactly who has shown they are able to use it.
So the problem is incompetent or corrupt referees and VAR officials. TBH, controversial handball, penalty and red card decisions are annoying but subjective and understandable decisions, to an extent. Getting factual offside decisions wrong makes me despair at PGMOL and question their agenda.
 


Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo

I believe in Joe Hendry
Oct 4, 2003
12,060
It's never too late to reverse the decision. The ref simply stops the match and awards the goal. If they can award a penalty for Man U after the final whistle they can stop the match and award the Liverpool goal.

Once play has restarted the ref cannot change his decision.

Law 5 The Referee

Section 2

The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted.


And the link also shows that the ref is allowed to award a penalty after the final whistle has blown.
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,489
Vilamoura, Portugal
It's just bizarre, isn't it?

Did they just say "yep - good goal" and nip off to put the kettle on whilst they thought the goal celebration etc played out?
They were probably checking the current odds on their Spurs bets to decide if they should cash out or put on more cash.
 










Sorrel

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,940
Back in East Sussex
This demonstrates that the officials conversations should be aired in the grounds, so we can hear what is being decided. At the Villa game our goal had a long VAR break after it, with no indication of what was going on.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,214
Cumbria
I suspect that this will mean that they will change their language from now on. So, instead of saying 'check complete' they will say something along the lines of 'not offside, goal'.
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,343
Wiltshire
I suspect that this will mean that they will change their language from now on. So, instead of saying 'check complete' they will say something along the lines of 'not offside, goal'.
Football has so much to learn from rugby...but arrogance still prevails
 






Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
Was there this much hooha when VAR f***ed us over against Palace?

Or is it just because it's Liverpool?
The Palace one provided evidence that subjective decisions by VAR aren’t any better than subjective decisions by refs on the pitch. Yesterday’s Spurs one tells us that VAR maybe doesn’t even watch the game (jet lagged from the UAE flight ?) and certainly doesn’t communicate effectively with the on field ref. Oh and it was live on tv.
 


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