Are you serious?? A person earning £19k is considered to be living in poverty??
[Misc] Poverty just now
- Thread starter Weststander
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I guess if you are earning £19k with no mortgage or other major outgoings you can easily get by. Depends on your definition of poverty .
Weststander
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #103
£1,400 a month won’t go far, depending on household circumstances with groceries at say £500, home fuel £200, water, council tax, insurances, car running or public transport, rent or mortgage commitments.
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Wokeworrier
Active member
There are numerous definitions, and people usually pick the one that suits their argument. Despite what you may have read on this thread food bank use is not one of them. Poverty rates have remained within a surprisingly small range (for all people) across the last few decades according to the definition used by the Joseph Rowntree organisation.
Overall UK Poverty rates
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
how would you know the relative competences of the relevant individuals before you decide?
if peole voted for political competence, surely we wouldn't have had to witness the keystone cops in government, from cameron onwards?
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,273
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/10/newcastle-food-bank-struggles-with-fall-in-donationsThere are numerous definitions, and people usually pick the one that suits their argument. Despite what you may have read on this thread food bank use is not one of them. Poverty rates have remained within a surprisingly small range (for all people) across the last few decades according to the definition used by the Joseph Rowntree organisation.
Overall UK Poverty rates
www.jrf.org.uk
Dress it up any way you like but, when the 5th biggest economy in the World is increasingly unable to provide its citizens with either the wages or the social security support to survive, definitions go out of the window. after 12 years of austerity for the people who had no blame in causing the crash of 2008, we get Austerity #2.... nurses earning £30k a year are now prepared to strike so how should those earning much less than that cope in a fair society ? If a cause is just, fair and temporary people can survive a huge cut in living standards if they know and understand that it is temporary (ukraine), We currently have a government with a business ethos of happily freezing or cutting living standards for the majority for the long term and this is absolutely disgusting.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,632
Which is why we have benefits. A couple earning £19k per year, two children, band B council tax, rent/mortgage £500 p.m., would get about £9,000 extra in benefits according to a benefits calculator.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,632
When poverty is based on average income, it becomes impossible to eliminate. (Except that if 51% of the population have nothing, then officially there is no poverty because nobody is below the median).There are numerous definitions, and people usually pick the one that suits their argument. Despite what you may have read on this thread food bank use is not one of them. Poverty rates have remained within a surprisingly small range (for all people) across the last few decades according to the definition used by the Joseph Rowntree organisation.
Overall UK Poverty rates
But a more practical example of the problems comes with income tax. If income tax rates are cut and nothing else changes, then it means poverty officially increases. The median earners pay income tax and so they are better off than they were before; the lower income people do not pay tax and so are in exactly the same place. And yet, because the median has gone up, there are more offically poor people.
And of course the converse is true. Simply by raising taxes and NIC, the government has reduced poverty, not because poor people have more money, but because rich people have less.
Cotton Socks
Skint Supporter
- Feb 20, 2017
- 2,159
A couple with 2 kids would ideally need a 2 bed place......£500 pm rent? You would be exceptionally lucky to get a studio flat for £500pm within a 30 mile radius of Brighton.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,632
But you would get a two bedroom terrace house within 30 miles of Burnley.
The ones in nicer town centre areas cost typically£525-£600. Cheaper to buy, of course.I presume that if your rent/mortgage is higher, your benefits would be higher too.
tigertim68
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2012
- 2,625
People don’t know what poverty is until you go to Africa, that Will open your eyes , people Over here have no idea what real poverty is .Listen to Teresa from 12:26 to 12:32, the entire 6 minutes.
Crikey, vulnerable people in real need are struggling to stay warm, a most basic need. A disgusting state of affairs.
Whilst waiting for any government to stop this madness, are there charities that can provide direct assistance exactly with this, without creaming off money for high admin costs?
Wokeworrier
Active member
I disagree, definitions, evidence and context are important. Many European countries have food bank systems, unsurprisingly they come under severe strain when times become difficult.
I completely agree with the view that those who actually caused the 2008 crash should have been held more accountable and higher rate tax payers should have shouldered more of the burden but restoring the countries finances after major economic damage (2008 crash, Covid/Ukraine) was always going to need some level of reduced public spending/cuts. As recent events have shown the markets punish governments who pretend there are easy options like borrowing to fund a political agenda while ignoring economic realities.
The government has undoubtedly made many mistakes but just to point out they have introduced numerous measures to reduce the cost of living crisis
Not nearly enough obviously but then again people always want governments to spend more (usually involving other people paying more tax) while rarely showing which taxes should rise to pay for increased support.
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rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
have i misunderstood? so now you're disavowing trussernomics?I disagree, definitions, evidence and context are important. Many European countries have food bank systems, unsurprisingly they come under severe strain when times become difficult.
I completely agree with the view that those who actually caused the 2008 crash should have been held more accountable and higher rate tax payers should have shouldered more of the burden but restoring the countries finances after major economic damage (2008 crash, Covid/Ukraine) was always going to need some level of reduced public spending/cuts. As recent events have shown the markets punish governments who pretend there are easy options like borrowing to fund a political agenda while ignoring economic realities.
The government has undoubtedly made many mistakes but just to point out they have introduced numerous measures to reduce the cost of living crisis
Not nearly enough obviously but then again people always want governments to spend more (usually involving other people paying more tax) while rarely showing which taxes should rise to pay for increased support.
Wokeworrier
Active member
You must have as you seem to be suggesting I have supported trussenomics.
Weststander
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #115
Outgoings > income = misery, being cold, hungry and inferior health/life prospects.
It’s little comfort to know others suffer elsewhere.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
i thought you took on two new employees on the back of truss's not budget?
BenGarfield
Active member
The UK government doesnt need tax to "pay for increased support". Tax performs other functions in the economy. When the exchequer receives our taxes our banks reserve account is debited. The money is effectively destroyed. Thats it. There is no link between this process and government spending. Whenever the government needs to spend, new money is created.I disagree, definitions, evidence and context are important. Many European countries have food bank systems, unsurprisingly they come under severe strain when times become difficult.
I completely agree with the view that those who actually caused the 2008 crash should have been held more accountable and higher rate tax payers should have shouldered more of the burden but restoring the countries finances after major economic damage (2008 crash, Covid/Ukraine) was always going to need some level of reduced public spending/cuts. As recent events have shown the markets punish governments who pretend there are easy options like borrowing to fund a political agenda while ignoring economic realities.
The government has undoubtedly made many mistakes but just to point out they have introduced numerous measures to reduce the cost of living crisis
Not nearly enough obviously but then again people always want governments to spend more (usually involving other people paying more tax) while rarely showing which taxes should rise to pay for increased support.
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,019
Can you or someone else on here explain this, these huge percentage rises in such a short space of time, are they due to supply issues due to the war in Ukraine, demand or the supermarket/retailer trying to push their profits up?
We were discussing the fuel situation at work the other day, if you’d said on say that 13th November 2020 that diesel would be around 185 a litre at the pumps in two years time people wouldn’t have believed you, the consumer would never accept it, riots in the streets etc.
But because fuel at the pumps went higher than that they’ve effectively made it look like they’ve done us a favour bringing it down, is the war really one of the major factors or looking at the reported profits of the oil companies is it the same concept as the butter?
Will butter or fuel ever go down to below £2 or 150 a litre again? (Unthinkable prices not that long ago)
Ultimately are we being played, with the people at the bottom of the pile being played the most?
Energy is a base cost for pretty much every business. Are you seeing your bills going up for petrol and heating the office etc?
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,019
To be fair we were locked in to a fuel price tariff for the office and our chapel which has 18 months to run so I can’t really comment on that.
Re the cars, again I’m fortunate in that I went out and bought the first hybrid funeral fleet on the South Coast 18 months ago, so with the cars being part electric our petrol bills were always going to be different.
I‘m lucky enough having been doing it 35 years and as a small business with a specific model our standard funeral prices have not gone up since January 2020, I’m going to try and keep this policy for as long as possible.