[Albion] Potterball, your opinions so far?

[rogersix]

You wouldn't have thought it was so difficult to understand.

stop it, if you can't be nice...

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I'd say both Duffy and Webster have deficiencies that expose Potter's style. Webster is a decent footballer, especially coming forward - but a below average defender at this level, esp at set pieces. Duffy is a great defender but lacking in skill and lacks a range of passing.

I reckon he plays whichever suits us depending on the opposition.

Yes, perfectly fair, but Duffy just needs to lay it off to people that can play, and Webster at times has a heavy touch.


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[Dick Swiveller]

Can somebody explain to me as to why after a player has been booked we never seem to play on the player and take him on. 3 Arsenal defenders were booked and nobody took them on 1 on 1.

Because Potter's tactics are from 2019 and not 1989. The same reason Duffy is out of favour. The same reason we alternate tactics. The same reason we swap the way the front players play. Everything is about a style of playing that reacts to the game situation. Not just someone being booked but the level of press from the opposition, the pace or lack of pace of the relative defenders, whether the opposition are overloading on one flank or the other. As someone just said, the whole style is about passing through teams - not just running at someone because they have been booked. If running at a defender is exploiting a weakness then we will do it. But not doing it to hope they get clumsy and sent off - doing it because it is the percentage play in that situation.

I see Potter tactics like Bloom's poker/betting tactics. It is playing the odds - going for the strategy with the highest chance of success. If that is bring on additional strikers at 1-0 up like at Watford then he will do it. If it is bringing on an additional defender with 3 minutes to go, he will do it. It is dynamic tactics which needs a great faith on the players to adapt to. It seems on the whole they have taken to it very quickly and can be trusted most of the time. Potter has said that he expects the players to figure out what to do on their own. This may explain some of the slow starts we have had. Sometimes they don't do it as with Leicester camped in the gap between the midfield and defence for most of the first half. Then Potter does make changes to help them figure it out.

It is a strategy that is often Potter taking on the opposition manager head to head and will often go horribly wrong if they are just better at it. But I genuinely hope that even if we go down, we persevere with him and I guarantee you that is Bloom's view. It may well be that he has to bow to fan pressure if we do get in trouble but he has the type of manager he wants to implement the system he has been building for years. There are very few of them around at the moment - especially English ones. Given how unfortunate we have been in some games and yet still have 18 points, you would hope Potter has adapted quickly enough to guide us to mid table but if it doesn't, I for one would still rather stick with him than go for a Red Adair style Hughes/Big Sam/Insert name of your choice stopgap to try and keep getting the PL money. That would undo all the good work with the consistent style across all youth teams and investment in the Academy.

In summary - throw away your 80s ethos because you are unlikely to see it. Potter will not try old fashioned tropes if they affect the whole team ethos.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because Potter's tactics are from 2019 and not 1989.

2029....Potter is a decade ahead!

 

[Hastings gull]

I will forever love Sir Chris, but this team under Potter is by far the best Albion team I've ever seen.

I know this sounds ridiculously optimistic, but I have seen enough to suggest we can finish in the top 10, maybe even top 6 this season.

Put it this way, how many teams have actually looked noticeably better than us? Man City, Man Utd (the best they've played this season), Leicester, and Chelsea. I suppose you could say Southampton but that wasn't the case until Andone had strop. And you'll note that Champions elect Liverpool are absent from that list.

So yes, Potter amazes me. He is tactically brilliant, he's given the right youngsters a chance, and he knows our weakness is a partner for Dunk at the back.

Next season worries me when both Potter and Dunk get jobs at Champions League clubs. Can anyone seriously see Arsenal not making a massive bid for Dunk in the summer? They won't be alone.

Agree with all of this. We are after Thursday on the crest of a wave, and there is understandably much optimism on here, and why not. Let's hope that the confidence gained from the Arsenal win now comes out tomorrow.

 

[BensGrandad]

Because Potter's tactics are from 2019 and not 1989. The same reason Duffy is out of favour. The same reason we alternate tactics. The same reason we swap the way the front players play. Everything is about a style of playing that reacts to the game situation. Not just someone being booked but the level of press from the opposition, the pace or lack of pace of the relative defenders, whether the opposition are overloading on one flank or the other. As someone just said, the whole style is about passing through teams - not just running at someone because they have been booked. If running at a defender is exploiting a weakness then we will do it. But not doing it to hope they get clumsy and sent off - doing it because it is the percentage play in that situation.

I see Potter tactics like Bloom's poker/betting tactics. It is playing the odds - going for the strategy with the highest chance of success. If that is bring on additional strikers at 1-0 up like at Watford then he will do it. If it is bringing on an additional defender with 3 minutes to go, he will do it. It is dynamic tactics which needs a great faith on the players to adapt to. It seems on the whole they have taken to it very quickly and can be trusted most of the time. Potter has said that he expects the players to figure out what to do on their own. This may explain some of the slow starts we have had. Sometimes they don't do it as with Leicester camped in the gap between the midfield and defence for most of the first half. Then Potter does make changes to help them figure it out.

It is a strategy that is often Potter taking on the opposition manager head to head and will often go horribly wrong if they are just better at it. But I genuinely hope that even if we go down, we persevere with him and I guarantee you that is Bloom's view. It may well be that he has to bow to fan pressure if we do get in trouble but he has the type of manager he wants to implement the system he has been building for years. There are very few of them around at the moment - especially English ones. Given how unfortunate we have been in some games and yet still have 18 points, you would hope Potter has adapted quickly enough to guide us to mid table but if it doesn't, I for one would still rather stick with him than go for a Red Adair style Hughes/Big Sam/Insert name of your choice stopgap to try and keep getting the PL money. That would undo all the good work with the consistent style across all youth teams and investment in the Academy.

In summary - throw away your 80s ethos because you are unlikely to see it. Potter will not try old fashioned tropes if they affect the whole team ethos.

Why is it considered old fashioned if as against Arsenal where Bellerin had been booked for Mooy or Trossard to not take him on and force him to play and possibly commit another foul. This idea of it being 1980s style doesnt wash with me as even Ben who is 25 and still plays football said that he would do it and so would most of the people he plays with. It just doesnt seem right.

 

[Icy Gull]

Sure, and sorry if my post caused any offence as we are all fans.

I loved Hughton, but surely the Tottenham performance alone would/should have swayed any doubters.

However, it’s not about being better IMO, just a different style. What is better is the integration of younger players.


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If you want to shut up shop and frustrate the opposition then CH is your man! I hated that Tottenham performance last year, backs to the wall all game, ridiculous speculative shots on the very rare occasions we ventured forward and we inevitably lost at the death because that’s what happens if you set yourself up to be used as target practice. I know others considered it a magnificent performance. We ended up with zero points and showed zero ambition, how is that magnificent

I will happily concede that the defensive tactics helped to keep us up for two seasons but we very seldom looked like we belonged and I concede that I felt we were lucky to be playing at this level. All that said, the season we got promoted (and the one before when we just missed out) is amongst the highlights of my time following the Albion. I think CH is an absolute gent and a very capable and exciting manager when he has the confidence to go at teams. That sadly didn’t happen much in the PL for whatever reason and I don’t think I should feel guilty that I wanted a change after the last few months of last season.

On rereading your post I think you may have been referring to Spurs at home this season and not the match at Spurs at the end of last season?

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Why is it considered old fashioned if as against Arsenal where Bellerin had been booked for Mooy or Trossard to not take him on and force him to play and possibly commit another foul. This idea of it being 1980s style doesnt wash with me as even Ben who is 25 and still plays football said that he would do it and so would most of the people he plays with. It just doesnt seem right.

Plays for Haywards Heath 3rds? Literally the whole point I was making was how Potter's tactics are different and more modern and you quote Sunday League players. It really isn't difficult - if a player gets the chance to run at someone on a booking then they probably will but the single, overriding principle of a Potter team is to play in the same way - make the pitch big, drag players out of position and play around/through them. As shown at Liverpool, it doesn't change when we are 2-0 down to the Champions League winners and it certainly won't change because someone has been booked.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

If you want to shut up shop and frustrate the opposition then CH is your man! I hated that Tottenham performance last year, backs to the wall all game, ridiculous speculative shots on the very rare occasions we ventured forward and we inevitably lost at the death because that’s what happens if you set yourself up to be used as target practice. I know others considered it a magnificent performance. We ended up with zero points and showed zero ambition, how is that magnificent

I will happily concede that the defensive tactics helped to keep us up for two seasons but we very seldom looked like we belonged and I concede that I felt we were lucky to be playing at this level. All that said, the season we got promoted (and the one before when we just missed out) is amongst the highlights of my time following the Albion. I think CH is an absolute gent and a very capable and exciting manager when he has the confidence to go at teams. That sadly didn’t happen much in the PL for whatever reason and I don’t think I should feel guilty that I wanted a change after the last few months of last season.

On rereading your post I think you may have been referring to Spurs at home this season and not the match at Spurs at the end of last season?

[emoji23][emoji23]
Yes, Spurs at home.

I enjoyed the away game as well but for completely opposite reasons!!
It was magnificent because we played against Champions League finalists at the top of their game, with inferior offensive options.

You are right though, you shouldn’t feel guilty as it’s all opinions, however, nobody should forget what CH did in keeping us up, arguably against the odds, and yes, those last home games were dire, really, really poor.

All very hypothetical but I think it is unlikely we would have survived that first season, playing the way we do now. (See Fulham).

GP has turned a team that struggled offensively, into a team more than capable of holding their own, and is also able to change systems multiple times - which is a major plus.



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[Jolly Red Giant]

Behave CH only managed 1pt in two seasons at the so called big six. Now you have him down for a shoe in 1-0 win at the Emirates.

Don't think Arsenal could be considered 'big six' this season - they are an absolute shambles the way things are going they will be luck if they don't end up battling relegation - and that is not to take away from a very deserved Brighton victory.

This is what slightly exasperates me about talking about the past and why I always feel bad debating JRG.

You've acknowledged you agree with my analysis of the current style. ALL I am saying is that Potter represents more risk and reward than Hughton did in the Premier League. In The Championship it was a different story, of course. We attacked teams we knew were lesser than us. We hit teams that were our match on the break (in a different way, often the long diagonal or Knocky dribbling out, both of which are risky, but different). But in the PL we sat back too much. It drove me mad. It drove the people I sit with mad. And Bloom is far more of a risk taker than me.

Now we are getting some where - You are absolutely correct - Potter is clearly 'more risk and reward'. The club is taking a chance by changing the approach of the manager. I would argue that Brighton didn't 'sit back too much' over the past two seasons - but Hughton had them well organised and played to the players strengths - and he did this to keep the club in the PL. I get the feeling that people don't realise how difficult a task that is - a club is far more likely to get relegated in the first or second season than it is to stay up. The club can change the approach now precisely because of the cautious approach adopted by Hughton - the squad is bigger and better now - and the 'risk and reward' is far more attainable. I would argue that Potter's approach in either of the last two seasons likely would have got Brighton relegated. Now he has a very good opportunity of making it work.

The only way you can truly appreciate the present is to compare it with the past. You have to do so fairly, of course. Hughton isn't off limits but mentioning his caution in the last six months isn't giving him shit. It's a fact. It's also a fact that he's the most successful manager we've ever had, or certainly tied with Mullery. Both are true.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing the present with the past - as long as you recognise that what happened in the past was influenced and impacted by the circumstances that existed in the past - it is not and cannot be a direct correlation. Yes - the football under Hughton was bad at the end of last season - but it also succeeded in keeping the club up - and from Hughton's perspective (and he had experience of this) he did what he felt was needed when the wheels came off the bus. So criticise the football on the pitch by all means - it deserves criticism - but also recognise what Hughton was trying to do - and that he succeeded even if the football was mind-numbingly boring and difficult to watch. And then move on to celebrate the performance on Thursday night - a great win - and a big 'risk and reward' style of play that made for an exciting game (and a reward of 3 points at the end of it - and a massive boost in confidence for the team).

Let's celebrate the achievements - recognise that the King was a good King doing the best he could with the resources that he had - and now the King is dead and long live the King. Onwards and upwards and enjoy the ride.

 

[BensGrandad]

Plays for Haywards Heath 3rds? Literally the whole point I was making was how Potter's tactics are different and more modern and you quote Sunday League players. It really isn't difficult - if a player gets the chance to run at someone on a booking then they probably will but the single, overriding principle of a Potter team is to play in the same way - make the pitch big, drag players out of position and play around/through them. As shown at Liverpool, it doesn't change when we are 2-0 down to the Champions League winners and it certainly won't change because someone has been booked.

No its much higher standard than that but the principle is the same 3 defenders booked if you attack them in the process of the team play they may get a 2nd booking and give you much more freedom. Each to our own views but it wouldnt change the general approach of the team and their basic target.

 

[amexer]

Havent looked at this thread but without doubt Potter football much better to watch and with it has come praise. However facts are if we had lost at Arsenal we would be one point from relagation. Its a results business so to early to make a judgement

 

[Bwian]

Don't think Arsenal could be considered 'big six' this season - they are an absolute shambles the way things are going they will be luck if they don't end up battling relegation - and that is not to take away from a very deserved Brighton victory.



Now we are getting some where - You are absolutely correct - Potter is clearly 'more risk and reward'. The club is taking a chance by changing the approach of the manager. I would argue that Brighton didn't 'sit back too much' over the past two seasons - but Hughton had them well organised and played to the players strengths - and he did this to keep the club in the PL. I get the feeling that people don't realise how difficult a task that is - a club is far more likely to get relegated in the first or second season than it is to stay up. The club can change the approach now precisely because of the cautious approach adopted by Hughton - the squad is bigger and better now - and the 'risk and reward' is far more attainable. I would argue that Potter's approach in either of the last two seasons likely would have got Brighton relegated. Now he has a very good opportunity of making it work.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing the present with the past - as long as you recognise that what happened in the past was influenced and impacted by the circumstances that existed in the past - it is not and cannot be a direct correlation. Yes - the football under Hughton was bad at the end of last season - but it also succeeded in keeping the club up - and from Hughton's perspective (and he had experience of this) he did what he felt was needed when the wheels came off the bus. So criticise the football on the pitch by all means - it deserves criticism - but also recognise what Hughton was trying to do - and that he succeeded even if the football was mind-numbingly boring and difficult to watch. And then move on to celebrate the performance on Thursday night - a great win - and a big 'risk and reward' style of play that made for an exciting game (and a reward of 3 points at the end of it - and a massive boost in confidence for the team).

Let's celebrate the achievements - recognise that the King was a good King doing the best he could with the resources that he had - and now the King is dead and long live the King. Onwards and upwards and enjoy the ride.

The King? Really?

Hughton did the best he could and it was not good enough-nothing to do with the resources he had. He reached his limit as a manager once we got promoted.

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[METALMICKY]

Havent looked at this thread but without doubt Potter football much better to watch and with it has come praise. However facts are if we had lost at Arsenal we would be one point from relagation. Its a results business so to early to make a judgement

Agree with this. The dark days at the end of Hughton's reign do make Potterball very attractive. However, it is still all about the results. What has enthused me greatly about Thursday was the way we went for it in via last 15 mins. We need to keep people fit, have some goals from midfield and still think we need another striker.

 

[Stat Brother]

Havent looked at this thread but without doubt Potter football much better to watch and with it has come praise. However facts are if we had lost at Arsenal we would be one point from relagation. Its a results business so to early to make a judgement

Just when you think this thread can't get anymore painful.

Shirley the facts are we won at Arsenal.
We won at a canter.
We won playing attractive, enjoyable, entertaining football.

It's a results business and 'we' got the result.

FFS those are the facts.


I absolutely despair of our 'fans' and now this thread.

In the wake of Thursday night this thread should just be like stepping into an Orgasmatron, yet once again so many posters are going out of their way to prove why we can't have nice things.

 

[Bwian]

Your opinion. My opinion is we would have won 1-0. The lapse in defence wouldn't have happened under CH.

Neither would the 20 shots have happened under Hughton so where your 1-0 win comes from baffles me.

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[jessiejames]

Simple fact is Potter has only had 1 pre season in which to implement an exciting way of playing football. This might be easier to do in the lower leagues, but to start in the top league and most of the time it works shows he has balls to do and trust in the squad. It is not going to work all of the time, but the difference between our style of play now compared to last season is amazing.

With Bloom and Potter at the club, these are exciting times for the Albion. Imagine how good we could be in a few years time, maybe the next Liverpool.

 

[amexer]

Just when you think this thread can't get anymore painful.

Shirley the facts are we won at Arsenal.
We won at a canter.
We won playing attractive, enjoyable, entertaining football.

It's a results business and 'we' got the result.

FFS those are the facts.


I absolutely despair of our 'fans' and now this thread.

In the wake of Thursday night this thread should just be like stepping into an Orgasmatron, yet once again so many posters are going out of their way to prove why we can't have nice things.

Easy to say how great everything is. Facts are we have played Burmley,Southampton.Newcastle and West Ham and not beaten them. Season will depend on how we do against near the bottom sides

 

[Swansman]

Easy to say how great everything is. Facts are we have played Burmley,Southampton.Newcastle and West Ham and not beaten them. Season will depend on how we do against near the bottom sides

Its even easier to say how shit everything is. Source: 30 years on this planet.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

Agree with this. The dark days at the end of Hughton's reign do make Potterball very attractive. However, it is still all about the results. What has enthused me greatly about Thursday was the way we went for it in via last 15 mins. We need to keep people fit, have some goals from midfield and still think we need another striker.

I am fully with you on all of this.