[Football] Potter [NOT] at Chelsea

[raymondo]

9th with Potter = he must have been shit, all down to the recruitment and development
9th (which I think is the table position ignoring the results with GP in the beginning of the season) with RDZ = great manager who improved the team

I don't get that equation honestly.

According to northstandchatian mythology, Pervis is better than Cucurella, RDZ better than Potter, Mitoma better than Trossard/whoever he could be compared with, Fergie better than Maupay... yet despite getting rid of all these people "holding the club back", Brighton appear to be strolling towards the same league position as last year.

Isn't that weird?

Only thing that has really changed is that 1) the team is crushing worse teams and 2) the boys can't buy a win against a reasonably in-form team. Used to be the opposite. Still 3 points isn't worth more against Bournemouth or Everton than they are against Manchester United or Arsenal.

The "improvement" part is also interesting. I saw the 5-2 win against Leicester as a warm-up ahead of the game against the same lot a couple of weeks ago. One of the games was a fierce, excellent performance with the team outplaying and beating the opponent firmly... and it sure wasn't the game after the "improvements".

I think this blogger - https://tweetingseagull.wordpress.com/2023/02/07/the-cult-of-the-individual/ - is spot on. If it was a cult before, then what it is it now with people (out of anger, grief and hope) inventing a reality that isn't there.

Yes, I think he's absolutely right, thanks for posting.
I seem to remember about a year ago... someone on NSC was pushing the cult of Potter, even asking what we might call said cult or Church of Potter

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Way off the mark. After the initial slow pace to keep possession and draw the press, the ball is moved forward much faster - ideally through a sequence of one touch passes. Around the edge of the box there’s far less ‘fannying about’, as I believe the experts call it.

Stop being technical

 

[Swansman]

Way off the mark. After the initial slow pace to keep possession and draw the press, the ball is moved forward much faster - ideally through a sequence of one touch passes. Around the edge of the box there’s far less ‘fannying about’, as I believe the experts call it.

If you say so.

Either way, both ways resulted in Brighton scoring a lot of goals against teams wanting to play and not scoring goals against teams that doesnt want to play.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Even with the long-term agreement reached with Todd, Potter must have realised he wasn’t going to get the luxury of a long run of losses/draws unopposed.

I suspect he might just survive tonight’s result, but a loss in either of the next two matches will finish him.

There’s no love for Potter among the fan base, and i can’t see him generating an impressive enough run of results that would grant him a real reprieve. As soon as Chelsea next lose a match, he’s going to have the fans on his back again.

It’s a situation largely of his own making, but I can still muster a thimble’s worth of sympathy for the devil. He’s aged visibly in the few months he’s been at Chelsea, and threats against his family are horrific.

To be fair old boy most people get death threats at some point in the public eye, obviously it’s not right but that’s the toxic society that has evolved, but to reiterate he chose to make them public in his Press conference.

I would imagine almost every EPL manager has had multiple threats/abusive emails from any number of sources in the last 7 days, they just haven’t chosen to publicise them.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

There is no 100% fair comparison. But comparisons are being made and I think that is no less fair than comparing the Brighton side of the last year with the one struggling at home two years ago or GPs first "bang average" season, which are often referred in the GP vs RDZ debate.

There is no fair comparison other than what we can see with our own eyes. But you won't take that as a fair reason because it doesn't fit in with your agenda that no one can say ill of Graham Potter or suggest that someone else is doing a slightly better job than he did.

 

[Wozza]

The only thing that has changed is how history is viewed. During the GP days there was a lot of threads with people saying "I haven't seen Brighton play this well in my 252 years as a fan", then he left and now the past has changed to "Brighton played turgid, boring, slow football".

The view hasn't changed. The truth is somewhere in-between.

It was great, possession-based football - the likes we'd never seen - but typically with little end product.

It was often effective away and or/against top teams, which attacked us. It was rarely effective at home, especially against middling or lowly teams, which didn't.

It was great at times (4-0 against Man United, comes to mind). It was poor at times (0-0 at home to lowly Leeds? Booooo!).

RDZ has shown we can play possession football, but with more intent, more excitement and more goals. A major upgrade, certainly in entertainment.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Way off the mark. After the initial slow pace to keep possession and draw the press, the ball is moved forward much faster - ideally through a sequence of one touch passes. Around the edge of the box there’s far less ‘fannying about’, as I believe the experts call it.

Potter certainly didn’t play turgid football but it’s also undeniable that De Zerbi has added more of an attacking edge. In return, we’re less sound defensively. Most of us will accept that trade off I think.

If you say so.

Either way, both ways resulted in Brighton scoring a lot of goals against teams wanting to play and not scoring goals against teams that doesnt want to play.

It's not only what he says, it's what the vast majority of people who actually watch Brighton play live week in, week out, think.

From the camera angles you see on your streams, you think differently. Maybe you're right and they are all wrong

 

[Swansman]

There is no fair comparison other than what we can see with our own eyes. But you won't take that as a fair reason because it doesn't fit in with your agenda that no one can say ill of Graham Potter.

Brighton fans have seen with their own eyes that Solly March is a League One player at best, Adam Webster is just a shite Shane Duffy, Aaron Connolly is a £50m striker and so on. What your eyes see really doesn't do much for me.

The only agenda here is that RDZ need to be better than Potter and Brighton need to be scoring more goals (which isnt the case compared to Potters final 15 games or so), getting better results (also not the case) and playing better football (subjective) than under Potter, because of the manner of how he left.

Thats up to you of course. Personally I've been enjoying Brighton play for 3.5 years now. No need for me to rewrite the past or the present. Happy clappy.

 

[Pondicherry]

The ball is not moving much quicker than in the last six months with GP and there's not more "purpose" now than there was then. IMHO.

Team has played well for 3.5 years. Results have improved in the last 12 months. League position has been fine for longer than that.

All of which is great.

The only thing that has changed is how history is viewed. During the GP days there was a lot of threads with people saying "I haven't seen Brighton play this well in my 252 years as a fan", then he left and now the past has changed to "Brighton played turgid, boring, slow football".

Depending on the future, the perception of the games we're seeing now may also change. Suddenly "Lewis Dunk stands on the ball before passing it to Caicedo who passes it to Webster who stands on the ball and passes it to Caicedo" perhaps won't be that much more thrilling than the "Dunk to Webster to Veltman to Dunk to Webster to Veltman" which is often how GPs team - as an afterthought - is now frequently described to have played.

As others have said, I don't agree with this. I suspect most Brighton fans who watch games live where the whole expanse of the game can be appreciated will consider the football under De Zerbi a significant step up on several fronts from that under Potter. That's not to denigrate the football under Potter, it was good. De Zerbi has improved it noticeably though. I don't think many (if any - maybe one) would want Potter back at the expense of De Zerbi.

 

[trueblue]

If you say so.

Either way, both ways resulted in Brighton scoring a lot of goals against teams wanting to play and not scoring goals against teams that doesnt want to play.

The point is that the newer way is frequently more dynamic, entertaining and exciting which, for a club of Brighton’s stature, is what most fans are looking for. Potter did a fantastic job but there were some depressingly long spells of underwhelming results before things really began to click at the back end of last season, when weird results are often to be expected. The majority - me included - were fully on board with his long term project and appreciate the job he did in making the players so confident on the ball. At the same time, De Zerbi has shown that Potter wasn’t unique. It’s great at least that GP is now showcasing his talent on a much bigger stage, using Chelsea’s star-studded squad to smash in a spectacular ONE goal every 3 games in 2023. That certainly backs up everything you say about the guy.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Thats up to you of course.

It is our right. It's also our right on a supporters forum to call out posters like you.

Sometimes when you're driving you get a little fly that keeps buzzing up and down in front of you on the windscreen. No matter how often you hit the screen you think you've got it, but, no there it is still buzzing about. You open the windows hoping it fly's away but f*** me there it is. An irritating little shit, that's you.

 

[The Fits]

Biggest thing RDZ has unquestionably improved, which hasn't been mentioned, is attitude. He thinks we belong and expects more. Huge change in mentality.

 

[Swansman]

The point is that the newer way is frequently more dynamic, entertaining and exciting which, for a club of Brighton’s stature, is what most fans are looking for. Potter did a fantastic job but there were some depressingly long spells of underwhelming results before things really began to click at the back end of last season, when weird results are often to be expected. The majority - me included - were fully on board with his long term project and appreciate the job he did in making the players so confident on the ball. At the same time, De Zerbi has shown that Potter wasn’t unique. It’s great at least that GP is now showcasing his talent on a much bigger stage, using Chelsea’s star-studded squad to smash in a spectacular ONE goal every 3 games in 2023. That certainly backs up everything you say about the guy.

If you feel that way, great. I don't see much difference: sometimes its very good, sometimes its dire. Its true RDZ haven't had any spells like the winless droughts GP had. But if RDZ is in charge for more than 3 seasons there is a fair chance that Brighton might go on a 6-7-8-9-10 game long winless streak... because that happens to virtually every non-top-club every now and then.

It is true that GP isn't unique. There's a lot of competent football managers with great ideologies around. GP is one, RDZ another. And when RDZ moves on, Tony will find a new guy, who will also likely be a competent manager wanting to play attractive football.

 

[The Fits]

If you feel that way, great. I don't see much difference: sometimes its very good, sometimes its dire. Its true RDZ haven't had any spells like the winless droughts GP had. But if RDZ is in charge for more than 3 seasons there is a fair chance that Brighton might go on a 6-7-8-9-10 game long winless streak... because that happens to virtually every non-top-club every now and then.

It is true that GP isn't unique. There's a lot of competent football managers with great ideologies around. GP is one, RDZ another. And when RDZ moves on, Tony will find a new guy, who will also likely be a competent manager wanting to play attractive football.

TB Fanboy

 

[Swansman]

TB Fanboy

Always. Remarkable person and club owner. Astonishing ability to find quality in literally every single role on and off the pitch.

 

[Justice]

So death threats are OK? Simple yes/no question.

Why did he have to bring that up in the press conference? A useful deflection away from how the team are performing or looking for sympathy?

 

[Bodian]

Never heard of. It must be either some character from Eastenders, a cricket player, a world champion in dart or some other type of entity who won't cut it overseas.

Swann, Swann will tear you apart again. At home or abroad.

 

[BNthree]

Guys every time you reply to the Swede telling him he is wrong about GP he will reply saying he isn’t. The simplest thing to do is not reply. He offers some great insight into football in general but his love of GP isn’t rational. Don’t waste your energy.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

 

[Swansman]

Guys every time you reply to the Swede telling him he is wrong about GP he will reply saying he isn’t. The simplest thing to do is not reply.

This. You get it.

Each time I'm told Graham Potter is shite or whatever, I will say that I watched his job in Brighton for three years and that he and his team did very well, playing nice football, developing players and the team, and getting ok or good results. That this is now labelled "wrong"... well, thats your take; I'll defend my view similar to how others defend theirs.