Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I’ve just watched Newsnight with Victoria Derbyshire. A lovely lady from Wales reading her witness statement where the PO investigator started off by calling her a bitch.
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[News] Post Office Scandal -
- Thread starter Talby
- Start date
Weststander
Well-known member
The other guest Prof Richard Moorhead was great …. “reasonably likely” that there’ll be criminal and Bar/LawSoc cases against lawyers for non disclosure and misleading.
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- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,766
What went wrong with Horizon: learning from the Post Office Trial
This Post Office trial has revealed what is likely the largest miscarriage of justice in UK legal history. Hundreds of individuals who operated Post Office branches (subpostmasters) were convicted on fraud and theft charges on the basis of missing funds identified by the Horizon accounting system. Twww.benthamsgaze.org
This is worth a read for anyone wanting to understand on the technical failings of the system, seems it failed the ACID test plus other issues with distributed systems etc..
From that report it would appear there was an Architecture failing with the lack of a 2 phased commit across multiple data sources to handle any issues with connectivity and consequential data corruption. This was quite a common 'backstop' to multiple data source systems at the time. I remember having to build one when building a new system 'integrating' a third party package with an in house system about 1995 for a financial firm in Brighton, that I believe is still running their core business on it.
It could have been problematic to identify as it appears the failings in connectivity may have been related to traffic peaks and this can be hard to recreate. However, the fact that there were discrepancies between the data sources should have pointed them in that direction immediately. This wasn't helped by what seemed to be a chaotic environment for changes, testing and release control, and the unaudited access directly to live data from large numbers of people.
They obviously found the core issue, as they said it would be fixed in a future release, but didn't put in place any sort of work around or auditable correction procedure and, the key thing, they then hid it, lied and prosecuted people they knew were innocent
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The Post Office was reducing the number of sub offices as the business model did not call for the existing (at the time ) number of offices to remain open. How convenient that a computer system would bring into discredit a large number of sub postmasters/mistresses and the closing of those offices plus the prosecutions and the monies that were confiscated at the time. So instead of paying out redundancy money they actually managed to get vast sums off the incumbent managers. Well it looks that way, does it not!
Yes , I was a sub postmaster but before the prosecutions started.
Yes , I was a sub postmaster but before the prosecutions started.
The investigator is clearly not a nice man and seriously incompetent, but I still question this. The only witness was the woman's husband. Surely it's possible to have misheard? For a start, surely nobody remotely professional considers it appropriate to use the word "bitch" in that context?
These people were not remotely professional. Essentially rogue bailiffs.
You get that impression, sure. But he's working for the Post Office which is(was?) a high profile reputable organisation, not some fly-by-night tin-pot local firm. You'd think he'd have been trained as to how to go about his job properly.
Really I am just not entirely sure that word was used although equally I can believe he did say it. But in an environment where the lady from Wales was stressed from being put under undue and extreme pressure through absolutely no fault of her own, it's possible that maybe she didn't hear him properly.
Official Old Man
Uckfield Seagull
Was this the same investigator who was quoted on record as saying that a Post Misstress should 'get up earlier' after working late at night?
I see what you’re saying but I’m not inclined to give these barbarians the benefit of the doubt.
Frankly, if they are misrepresented in some way? Good. Now they know 1/1000,000 of what the subpost masters and their families might have felt.
Presumably, yes - although I haven't heard that one.
I have no wish to argue this one really - just that in this clamour to ensure this waste of skin "inspector" is held to account, it's possible that some things are being attributed to him that he's not guilty of.
Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.
Official Old Man
Uckfield Seagull
Here he is then. Remember when you watch these, he has already told others that 'they are the only one' having trouble with the Horizon system.
There are more short videos but here is his full interview under oath.
Also remember, he is just one of many.
Weststander
Well-known member
Exactly my instinct.
I was aware of this story as I'd seen the panorama but have now watched on catch up the Mr Bates v The Post Office.
One of the biggest things that strikes me is that this Paula Vennels believes she is a christian!!!
There will be no justice until all affected postmasters are fully compensated for their loses, fully compensated for their suffering and that those culpable at both the Post Office and Fujitsu have served time behind bars and finally that the Law Society mete out their punishments to their members.
One of the biggest things that strikes me is that this Paula Vennels believes she is a christian!!!
There will be no justice until all affected postmasters are fully compensated for their loses, fully compensated for their suffering and that those culpable at both the Post Office and Fujitsu have served time behind bars and finally that the Law Society mete out their punishments to their members.
Weststander
Well-known member
Look at millions of American Christians, or priests globally who abuse kids.
I've long since given up putting Christian's on a pedestal. I've seen enough down the years to make me very wary of them.
Bone-idle, pointless, and bigoted are some of the adjectives I'd use to describe some of these self-appointed bastions of morality. I'd happily give examples of Christians that fit those adjectives.
They are not Christian’s. They are paedophiles using Christianity as cover to gain access to victims.
True Christians would not behave this way.
For me a Christian is far better represented by the member of the community that works through the church to help others. Not use the church to help themselves to whatever and whomever they wish.
I was educated in a catholic school over 40 years ago and from that point the hypocrisy of Christians (along with many other religions) was blatantly obvious.
Weststander
Well-known member
Selfless folk (whether they’re religious or not).
As far as I'm concerned, a Christian is somebody who believes in Jesus Christ as God on Earth but they'll tell you a Christian also follows his teachings.
However, his teachings are clearly open to interpretation. Vennells for example has interpreted "love thy neighbour" as "feel free to maximise your own remuneration at the expense of hundreds of innocent victims with no discernable voice". A pattern of behaviour which I'm sure we can agree is so very close to the parable of The Good Samaritan.