- Thread starter
- #41
Completely understand that. I do know that key supporters for the sub postmasters are looking into each and every case in detail and there is a huge amount of anger about their treatment.
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[News] Post Office Scandal -
- Thread starter Talby
- Start date
A very good friend of mine was a PO auditor until he took early retirement (best decision he has ever taken, according to him). He ran a team of auditors. His role apart from training was simply to audit, if issues were found his team escalated it. This is when the investigation team came in. He said the system (Horizon) just wasn't robust enough and not tested correctly before roll out.
- Thread starter
- #43
Someone we know, his dad had a stroke and serious mental health issues during and after the investigation into his post office.
My Daughter worked as an assistant manager for a busy Post office.
While she was on holiday, £5,000 went missing.
Although it was investigated by the PO, and the culprit was very obvious, the PO did nothing.
My Daughter was told by the Area Manager that the PO didn’t want any adverse publicity after the Horizon scandal.
The thief was asked to resign 2 weeks after the investigation, and no further action was taken.
While she was on holiday, £5,000 went missing.
Although it was investigated by the PO, and the culprit was very obvious, the PO did nothing.
My Daughter was told by the Area Manager that the PO didn’t want any adverse publicity after the Horizon scandal.
The thief was asked to resign 2 weeks after the investigation, and no further action was taken.
- Thread starter
- #45
Well, they’re getting a lot of adverse publicity now!
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,739
Problem with “they’s” is their personnel are never held personally accountable. Like ratlines to South America, the bastards individually responsible for ruining or even ending lives see out their days in comfort; and regardless of enquiries - which can take decades it’s no wonder the real villains die before any justice can be brought (if any). Look no further than our own club’s history!
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,857
Investigating the Post Office Scandal – the podcast
Rebecca Thomson and Nick Wallis cover the ongoing Post Office Horizon IT scandal. This podcast is entirely funded by donation, but it is free to listen to, either by streaming through your browser …
www.postofficescandal.uk
No idea when this was recorded, but Ep 34 is an interesting deep dive into "where the money went".
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
This 4-parter is excellent viewing, and culminates in a documentary on Friday. I've followed it since the scandal broke, and the blood runs cold at the magnitude of what these poor innocent folk were put through. People were jailed, lost their livelihoods, and in some cases lost their lives.
The corporate-level denials and cover-ups has echoes of Hillsborough. "Nothing to see here", whilst deliberately crushing those with the smallest voices.
Disgusting. Vennells and her fellow executives at the PO should be facing corporate manslaughter charges.
The corporate-level denials and cover-ups has echoes of Hillsborough. "Nothing to see here", whilst deliberately crushing those with the smallest voices.
Disgusting. Vennells and her fellow executives at the PO should be facing corporate manslaughter charges.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,857
"Fascinating" culture/procedures at the post office at the time in above blog.
One postmaster spotted that a customer had exploited a loop hole in the system. She had a card that was used to transfer money into her company account.
However the customer found the card could be used to withdraw cash as well.
From her account ? No the Post Office...
On top of that, on withdrawing the cash the Post Office software then credited the company account as per the the purpose of the card.
So a £500 pound withdrawal left the postmaster with a £1000 loss. The customer was eventually prosecuted, but as per the contracts at the time (and the way the law was interpreted) the postmaster was liable for the losses of £10,000.
Unbelievable.
One postmaster spotted that a customer had exploited a loop hole in the system. She had a card that was used to transfer money into her company account.
However the customer found the card could be used to withdraw cash as well.
From her account ? No the Post Office...
On top of that, on withdrawing the cash the Post Office software then credited the company account as per the the purpose of the card.
So a £500 pound withdrawal left the postmaster with a £1000 loss. The customer was eventually prosecuted, but as per the contracts at the time (and the way the law was interpreted) the postmaster was liable for the losses of £10,000.
Unbelievable.
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Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
I know there are many IT'ers on here who have worked in software development and will be all too aware of the constraint triangle. Time, cost & quality.
I was not involved with Horizon but have seen countless government IT systems during my 35 years that delivered sub-optimal solutions due to the constraint triangle.
I could say more but OSA does not permit ....
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
An interesting question to Duncan Baker MP, and the relationship to a Sussex MP.
Would have been the case for Horizon for sure but there are lots of levers that solve this issue in modern development.
Using proof of concept and MVP with iterative sprints and go lives, fixed pricing with penalties, zero 'must' defect policy and using MACH architecture to deploy services and interfaces as and when needed.
I'd imagine government is still stuck in 2001 though.
Oh yes. HMRC has had a succession of IT disasters going back decades.
About ten years ago I had a meeting with senior, head office staff from HMRC. One of the issues we discussed was HMRC's failing IT systems. During the course of the conversation HMRC said "we are beholden to our IT suppliers"! I couldn't believe it so I asked him to repeat it. He did. I said "but you are the customer, how can you be "beholden" to a supplier / contractor?". HMRC just shrugged.
- Mar 23, 2023
- 2,115
HMRC do something similar - they lost their case against Kay Adams and kept taking it to tribunal after tribunal with all the assets in the world to pay for all the barristers they like.
www.contractoruk.com
Forget about the money but a decade of fighting hmrc is life defining.
Absolutely disgusting.
IR35-fatigued Kaye Adams wins her tax case, but HMRC says it might not be done yet
The Loose Women presenter triumphs in a ‘finely-balanced’ case, after being forced for the fourth time to defend her outside IR35 status in court.
Forget about the money but a decade of fighting hmrc is life defining.
Absolutely disgusting.
It is excellent tv. The casting and the acting are absolutely superb. So good that at times it is like watching a documentary.
The treatment of the PO staff is truly appalling as is the lengths that the PO went to in an attempt cover it up. Somebody needs to be held to account. Hopefully prosecutions will follow but following the Hillsborough debacle where despite dozens of police officers being involved in a conspiracy not one of them got banged up, I'm not very hopeful.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Assets being taxpayers money, as did the Post Office. We are all paying for this debacle.HMRC do something similar - they lost their case against Kay Adams and kept taking it to tribunal after tribunal with all the assets in the world to pay for all the barristers they like.
IR35-fatigued Kaye Adams wins her tax case, but HMRC says it might not be done yet
The Loose Women presenter triumphs in a ‘finely-balanced’ case, after being forced for the fourth time to defend her outside IR35 status in court.
Forget about the money but a decade of fighting hmrc is life defining.
Absolutely disgusting.
The silence from the Government - which likes to present itself as being on the side of hard-working, honest, decent people - is deafening, but predictable. The Tories never condemn bosses or bad employers, only 'lazy' workers and 'greedy' trade unions.
If only the PO bosses were social security 'scroungers or people in small boats, I'm sure Ministers would be announcing 'robust' retribution against the perpetrators, and a major clamp-down.
If only the PO bosses were social security 'scroungers or people in small boats, I'm sure Ministers would be announcing 'robust' retribution against the perpetrators, and a major clamp-down.
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Sadly you are 100% spot-on. Also it's sad that when wrong-doing is exposed the Post Office, like the NHS, just wants to cover its arse. These organisations lie, obfuscate, stonewall, delay, deny - anything other than be open. Then when the truth can't be contained any longer, they just say they're 'sorry' and that 'safeguards have been put in place to stop it happening again'. And who was at fault? 'Wrong to blame individuals'.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The victims of this persecution are still trying to fight this, today.
A mex eyecan
Well-known member
- Nov 3, 2011
- 3,838
usually followed by some ‘high flyer’ deciding to step back, retire, follow new paths (add whatever other lame excuse you wish) and set off into the sunset with a rather nice pension or golden hand shake which is paid for from the public purse .. and incredibly then walk into some other cosy high position elsewhere.
Lord it makes you sick to your guts.