Post ManU v Arsenal - worrying words

[NMH]

So as Arsenal didn't play well, utd fans won't be bothered about the fact that they've belted them 4-0 in the f.a. cup? What about that 5-1 in the league all those years ago? What about when Palace beat us 5-0, were they pretty unbothered about the whole thing?

Agreed again - but while spanking an opposing team is enjoyable and lasting, why NOT have a bit of a showboat, and goad the opposition to get THEIR act together to stop it ....by playing a lot better themselves?

What Arsenal did out of annoyance to Nani, was just bad sportsmanship in my opinion - and to say Nani was the bad sport is just acceding to their disgruntled brooding.

The REAL answer to showoff-play and pisstaking, is to get enough passion up to play better football, score some goals and say "showboat THAT!"

 

[Mr deez]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm4unXaoih0

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. He didn't set out to show off, just so happened that that the circumstances made it easy for him. It's likely that playing the ball down and attempting to control the ball would have been the more risky option.

 

[Simon Morgan]

Agreed again - but while spanking an opposing team is enjoyable and lasting, why NOT have a bit of a showboat, and goad the opposition to get THEIR act together to stop it ....by playing a lot better themselves?

What Arsenal did out of annoyance to Nani, was just bad sportsmanship in my opinion - and to say Nani was the bad sport is just acceding to their disgruntled brooding.

The REAL answer to showoff-play and pisstaking, is to get enough passion up to play better football, score some goals and say "showboat THAT!"

If it has to be done at all, it should be done by someone who has the authority to do it, someone like Cristiano Ronaldo who is arguably the best player in the world. As I mentioned before Nani hasn't set the world alight this season, and he is showboating against a team who HAS set the world alight this season, it doesn't add up. I can see what you mean about how the opposition may get their act together as a result, but that is not the desire of the player who is doing the showboating.

 

[NMH]

Was the 'Ali Shuffle' unnecessary?

He exclaimed "I'm THE GREATEST" after beating Liston.

(Just because it's irresistible) here's some more unnecessary showboating from Cassius Clay v Sonny Liston;

"Sonny Liston is nothing. The man can't talk. The man can't fight. The man needs talking lessons. The man needs boxing lessons. And since he's gonna fight me, he needs falling lessons"


"I'm not the greatest. I'm the double greatest. Not only do I knock 'em out, I pick the round. I'm the boldest, the prettiest, the most superior, most scientific, most skilfullest fighter in the ring today"


"Now Clay swings with a right............................. ..What a beautiful swing .................................... ..And the punch raises the bear .......................... ..Clear out of the ring. ....................................... ..Liston is still rising .......................................... ..And the ref wears a frown ............................... ..For he can't start counting .............................. ..Till Sonny comes down"

 

[Simon Morgan]

Football is a team sport, boxing is individual. There are some players who are happy to be part of a team and get the job done, whereas there are others who want to stand out a bit. Nothing wrong with that, but Nani has no reason to advertise his 'greatness' against the league leaders.

 

[NMH]

If it has to be done at all, it should be done by someone who has the authority to do it, someone like Cristiano Ronaldo who is arguably the best player in the world. As I mentioned before Nani hasn't set the world alight this season, and he is showboating against a team who HAS set the world alight this season, it doesn't add up. I can see what you mean about how the opposition may get their act together as a result, but that is not the desire of the player who is doing the showboating.

No, not the desire of the player instigating it - but then that effect has to be endemic, otherwise it wouldn't be showboating!

Why it should also only be appropriate in the domain of such as Ronaldo.... I have to also raise issue with. He's entitled because his style of football makes HIM "the best"? How'd he get to be the best, if not by fancy ball skills that made fools of his opposition? Is 'frustrating oppositions' not a desirable asset in the game? Managers drool over the idea!

Is there a bad way to frustrate opposing players?
Yes, actually I believe there is. I forgot the name they have for it, but goading opposing players by insulting their Mother or wife, verbally abusing with insults - imo those are wrong because they're ungentlemanly and unnecessarily aggressive.
Robbie Savage....now there's a name to conjure with - he's famous for verbal wind-ups, and managers don't seem to want to discourage him ....when he's on their team. IF he's winding players up by saying "come on, you can't get the ball off me, you can't even go past me" then he's inviting ball skills. If he's calling the player's Mother a ho', then I think he'd be rightfully in trouble, as it's no longer of the sport.

 

[Simon Morgan]

I think to actually continue this debate, I need to say what I define showboating as. I see it as something that happens outside the game itself. It doesn't gain territory, it doesn't get you closer to scoring, you can easily lose possession when doing it. Ronaldo is a skillfull player who will do his stupid stepovers to get round players, that is not showboating for me.

 

[NMH]

Football is a team sport, boxing is individual. There are some players who are happy to be part of a team and get the job done, whereas there are others who want to stand out a bit. Nothing wrong with that, but Nani has no reason to advertise his 'greatness' against the league leaders.

See, you have raised points that make sense as to your reasoning, yet you place conditions with them.
He can't showboat because he's in a team? Why shouldn't an INDIVIDUAL have MORE responsibility to his sport as NOT to showboat?
That Arsenal lead the league is another condition? Hmmm I can see your point for suggesting Ferguson might not like it in that case..... but for Arsenal players to try fouling, in that light? They should have been proud to underline how petty and silly it looks to them - not kicking him in anger! Give an ironic handclap (with one flat palm and other hand in prissy little pat-type of ironic) and then juggle the ball past and around Nani!

I think I'm staying with this perception of it Simon Morgan; - that it required a football-related response, and not either a physical attack nor a verbal one on Nani.

But thanks for raising some excellent points.

 

[Del Boy]

Simon Morgan - Your point is VERY weak, I can't be arsed to get drawn into this debate but surely you can see that?

Comments like "If it has to be done at all, it should be done by someone who has the authority to do it"

why? It will give them more of a boot up the arse if it isn't "who is arguably the best player in the world" whom is capabale of doing it to anyone.

Arsenal were shite and where beaten well. Eboue's challenge was disguisting and not the first time he has done it, Wenger should get rid as he is far better than having players like that.

 

[NMH]

I think to actually continue this debate, I need to say what I define showboating as. I see it as something that happens outside the game itself. It doesn't gain territory, it doesn't get you closer to scoring, you can easily lose possession when doing it. Ronaldo is a skillfull player who will do his stupid stepovers to get round players, that is not showboating for me.

Agreed - but then those are inherent risks involved.
For fortune to favour the brave, the brave have to act extraordinarily, and with much risk involved.

 

[Simon Morgan]

Firstly, the reason I mentioned the whole "team" idea, is because I thought your comparison with Muhammed Ali was an unfair one. My second "condition" was that Nani really has no right to believe he is better than anyone on that pitch, and trying to make out he is is what annoys me and others. Maybe when he has strung together a few good appearances for utd, then he can start thinking about strolling around like he owns the place? Also, I think the reactions are not attacks, but more constructive criticism to get the boy to keep his feet on the ground.

 

[Mr deez]

As I said above, not convinced it was showboating and may well have been the best thing to do in those circumstances, just so happened that Nani had the skill to pull it off.

 

[Simon Morgan]

Simon Morgan - Your point is VERY weak, I can't be arsed to get drawn into this debate but surely you can see that?

Comments like "If it has to be done at all, it should be done by someone who has the authority to do it"

why? It will give them more of a boot up the arse if it isn't "who is arguably the best player in the world" whom is capabale of doing it to anyone.

Arsenal were shite and where beaten well. Eboue's challenge was disguisting and not the first time he has done it, Wenger should get rid as he is far better than having players like that.

Your disagreement with my point doesn't mean it is weak. And your last comment about Eboue is baffling, he is a great player. He does need to sort out his attitude, but it will take more than 1 red card to prompt a manager as good as wenger to "get rid"

 

[NMH]

Firstly, the reason I mentioned the whole "team" idea, is because I thought your comparison with Muhammed Ali was an unfair one. My second "condition" was that Nani really has no right to believe he is better than anyone on that pitch, and trying to make out he is is what annoys me and others. Maybe when he has strung together a few good appearances for utd, then he can start thinking about strolling around like he owns the place? Also, I think the reactions are not attacks, but more constructive criticism to get the boy to keep his feet on the ground.

Okay. Well I just wish more players would stick their best foot forward, stick their necks out, and put on a bit more 'show'. Personally, I don't see how Ronaldo has any more 'right' to do it, than Nani.

In fact, I have to suspect that Nani actually got the whole idea, in the first place, from his high-profile-showboating team-mate!

 

[NMH]

Another point here - but aren't some goal celebrations often rather showy and obvious acts of arrogance?

Certainly I can see how they can be construed as 'entitlements' if a goal has been scored, and a conclusive statistic added to the match. But.... it's still not the end of the match when a goal has been scored, and rocking the baby.....if conditional, should only be done by Brasillian players (?) ....and only if they are at that point, world champions?

 

[Del Boy]

Your disagreement with my point doesn't mean it is weak. And your last comment about Eboue is baffling, he is a great player. He does need to sort out his attitude, but it will take more than 1 red card to prompt a manager as good as wenger to "get rid"

You seemed to miss the main point of the post.

Your comment of "If it has to be done at all, it should be done by someone who has the authority to do it"

why? It will give them more of a boot up the arse if it isn't "who is arguably the best player in the world" (in your words again) whom is capabale of doing it to anyone.

 

[blue'n'white]

George Best did it time and again - it was called "entertainment" back then !!!
You know - "entertainment" - what we pay our money for week after week.
The more the merrier in my opinion.

 

[Easy 10]

Does anyone remember Nathan Jones utterly taking the piss out of Orient when we were something like 4-1 up a few years back ? Bit of ball-juggling up by the north-east corner if I remember (when the away fans were seated there), lured in a couple of tackles before skipping out of the way and delivering a cross.

I was LOVING it. It was hilariARSE

 

[RM-Taylor]

Well it's only the FA Cup, it's pretty apparent that the foreign managers couldn't care about it, given Chelsea & Arsenal's team selections yesterday.

Man United only were really rallied up for it as they know it's the only thing they can win this season, hope they get drawn away to Chelsea in the quarter-finals and lose, but watch the draw fortunatley put them at home against Bristol Rovers or Cardiff.

 

[Wozza]

So as Arsenal didn't play well, utd fans won't be bothered about the fact that they've belted them 4-0 in the f.a. cup? What about that 5-1 in the league all those years ago? What about when Palace beat us 5-0, were they pretty unbothered about the whole thing?

Durrrr. I didn't say Man Utd fans aren't 'bothered' it, but only idiots would consider it a classic win given that neither club put out full-strength sides, Arsenal didn't turn up, and the competition is a low priority.

If you think that thrashing was as important/meaningful to United fans as the Palace win was over Albion, I can only conclude you know f*** all about football.