Possible bad news for a B777 [Malaysian MH370]

[Paris]

There was a very good documentary on the Air France crash on channel 4 called 'Fatal flight 447: Choas in the cockpit'

The cause of the crash was that the speed sensors froze up and the auto pilot could not longer tell how fast the plane was going and handed control back to the pilots.

The captian was asleep but the co-pilot and the junior pilot were at the controls, the junior pilot was flying the plane and given the information he had, thought that the plane was travelling too fast so lifted the nose to try to slow it down but this caused a stall and the plane lost altitude. The other pilot took over but didn't give the usual audio i have control and the junior pilot was still pulling back on the controls trying to slow the plane without the co-pilot knowing until they realised and it was too late. They could have saved themselves by diving a bit to gain speed again but the co-pilot didn't know that the plane was stalling because of this climb.

The part that froze has been replaced on all planes that used to have them and training of pilots has been altered because pilots arn't used to flying planes as it's normally left to the auto pilot

well worth a watch on youtube
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I'm in contact with a guy whos sister perished on this flight. Makes for sobering viewing.

 

[The Wizard]

Broke up at 30k.the wreck will be tiny bits over about 1,000 sq miles of open ocean. Poor, poor people.

Broke up? Modern planes simply do not do this, apart from in extremely rare cases & when bombs have gone off. In this day an age, planes don't just break apart due to structural issues, if this is the case I must have been an act of terrorism.

It's quite baffling that there is literally no trace of it, if it had gone down in the sea or been blown up in mid air you'd think some sort of evidence for this would have been found by now? Plane fuselage and other more grim things can disperse hundreds of miles in the sea so it's quite strange there is literally no trace at all.

 

[Soulman]

I was having a chat with an air traffic controller this afternoon. Apparently the radars can pick up the aircraft's position even if the system is switched off/sabotaged/the plane blown up.
Not going to bore you with the conversation, but he seemed fairly sure that it is known what happened and the details are being withheld.

 

[Pondicherry]

Black boxes have a beacon which activate on contact with water. If the plane crashed in the sea why is it so hard to find?

 

[Soulman]

And what does he think has happened?

As he seemed to rule out malfunction, pilot error, and the fact that radar systems could pick up an object......either the radar have picked it up (bearing in mind it is airspace over that part of the world) and they are hiding the fact, and so it seems to point to terrorism, or similar involvement.
He seems to think it points to a cover up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Broke up at 30k.the wreck will be tiny bits over about 1,000 sq miles of open ocean. Poor, poor people.

A search & rescue team from an American naval ship were on TV, explaining they could find objects as small as a football, so if there was a small piece of wreckage, it would have been detected.

 

[Soulman]

A search & rescue team from an American naval ship were on TV, explaining they could find objects as small as a football, so if there was a small piece of wreckage, it would have been detected.

Exactly.

 

[sydney]

this plane was involved in an accident at shanghai airport last year ,which resulted in a large portion of one of its wings big torn off......apparently.....

 

[beorhthelm]

A search & rescue team from an American naval ship were on TV, explaining they could find objects as small as a football, so if there was a small piece of wreckage, it would have been detected.

interesting... couple of weeks ago there was a program where they showed how difficult it is to find some in the water. the US coastguard drop someone in the water then, with coordinates known, another team went looking to fish him out. even knowing where to look, it took them some time to locate the chap. the odds without knowing coords were 25% or some low number. methinks search & rescue doesnt exactly like to brag how unlikly they are to find you, they are there for reassurance.

another "i was told" anecdote, i was told by someone (who's authority i dont remember, i think they were ex-RAF or other forces) that a plane doesnt hang around on the water very long. the whole deployment of slides and life boats is there for comfort. then again that plane on the Hudson stayed afloat (just) for long enough for people to get out, so dont know, but it makes me wonder how long you have upon splash down, and an intact plane isnt going to leave a large trail of debris to spot.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A plane would break up hitting the water.

 

[Bozza]

A search & rescue team from an American naval ship were on TV, explaining they could find objects as small as a football, so if there was a small piece of wreckage, it will be detected sooner or later.

Fixed for you.

We might not have got to later yet.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The problem with this type of incident is that they roll out some sort of "expert" in the field who is generally not that well briefed and place on tv or the airwaves.

Now with so many documentaries on tv explaining how aircraft accidents happen all of a sudden everyone knows everything.

I haven't a clue how or where this plane has gone and will not offer any explanation but generally commenting on aircraft I'm happy too.

I was qualified as a licensed aircraft engineer for B-Cal/BA with company approvals on most of the fleet including the B777. As an engineer I received a magazine from the CAA called Human Factors, this listed and explained different incidents around the world that related to human error whether it be pilot engineer or whoever. One thing does become apparent with all fatal incidents, it is easy to blame a dead person! The large aircraft builders, the airlines and the authorities do not want to blame the design of aircraft if they can get away with it. Take the Air France crash for example the pitot tubes become frozen, Is that the fault of the pilot? No. This was a design fault. This led to the incident however it is blamed on pilot error and will be remembered as such. First and foremost the design was at fault.

In regard to airframe design in modern day aircraft the B777 was the first boeing to extensively use composite materials (been used to a lessor extent on previous aircraft), it was also a completely new airframe design for some years. B727 B737 are effectively the same airframe as is B757. B767 is again the same just bigger. The B747 series is basically the same design throughout its derivatives. The B777 was a brand new concept. Each aircraft design has a considered airframe life dependant on cycles (one cycle is a take off, flight, landing). The airframe life is extended by the aircraft maker in conjunction with the authorities by proving its airworthiness. As time goes on the airlines will highlight to Boeing and alike failures in structure (such as cracks being found in particular areas), Boeing in turn will issue airworthy notices instructing all airlines to specifically check these areas (this goes for all problems highlighted). Over time the manufacturer will build up a full picture of the integrity of its design hence why so many of Boeing's designs are the effectively the same but enhanced from the previous one. The B777 as stated was back to the drawing board.

Now I've bored you all I'm off to bed.

 

[clapham_gull]

I remember reading about a plane that disappeared a few years ago and tonight re found the story.

A plane was stolen from an airport in Angola in 2003. Obviously slightly different circumstances but they've never found that either.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA

 

[OzMike]

It's them aliens I tell ye!
Beamed it up they did.

 

[Napper]

Big sea . It will be found . Unrealistic to expect instant results

All will become clear but will take months

 

[surrey jim]

There is a press conference 7am by Malaysian Authorities.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

A few of my personal favourites from the wise people over on the BBC World Service's Facebook page.