Portsmouth to be docked more points

[BensGrandad]

The football authorities have bent over backwards to accomodate Portsmouth FC why?

Will Palace get the same sympathy when they are kicked out of Smelhurst next week?

 

[Gwylan]

Why do Spurs not need the money?

I thought you were a Spurs fan.

According to Daniel Levy, “The robust and well financed nature of our business, early prudent financial management measures, profitable player trading and the continued, unwavering loyalty of our supporters has meant that we are able to announce a record profit before tax of £33.4m for the year”

 

[Easy 10]

The football authorities have bent over backwards to accomodate Portsmouth FC why??

The FAPL have bent over backwards for Pompey because they're an embarrassment to the "brand". It would have been even more damaging to the FAPL if Pompey had folded mid-season and been unable to fulfil their fixtures, hence the helping hand they've had in selling players outside the window, being allowed to keep the likes of O'Hara etc.

Happily for Scudamore et-al, they can wash their hands of them in a couple of weeks time anyway, and go back to dreaming up other such bollocks like the 39th game.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

But surely when it comes to HMR&C, it should quite literally go without saying that they get paid first, like it does with the rest of us. As a business, if you're not paying your PAYE / VAT / National Insurance, then that should be setting off alarm bells left, right and centre straight away that all is not well.

I am AMAZED that the footballing authorities can get away with this abitrary rule, and cannot get my head round why its never even been challenged.

HMRC did challenge this rule and lost in Court; it was some years ago and prior to the Leeds/Ken Bates saga. The Football authorities used to treat HMRC debts on the same basis as other football liabilities but changed their rules; the outcome now is that HMRC votes against every football CVA proposal as a point of principle unless they're getting all their money back. I think Starry may have some detailed info on this?

My view, and as company director, on PAYE/VAT/NI/Corporation Tax etc is much the same as yours; if you're late in paying then they should be down on you like a ton of bricks. In fact this money is just being collected for HMRC and is never the Company's, so I would go as far as to say that using it for other purposes (eg paying other creditors) should be a criminal offence, not a corporate offence but a personal one - ie the Company Directors should be individually liable.

 

[BensGrandad]

My view, and as company director, on PAYE/VAT/NI/Corporation Tax etc is much the same as yours; if you're late in paying then they should be down on you like a ton of bricks. In fact this money is just being collected for HMRC and is never the Company's, so I would go as far as to say that using it for other purposes (eg paying other creditors) should be a criminal offence, not a corporate offence but a personal one - ie the Company Directors should be individually liable.

I can not see an argument against this and it should not only be for football clubs but for all business.

It, surely cannot be right for people like Mike Ashley to fold Soccer World one day and reopen the next under another name or Techenguiz to close Yates Wine Lodges at 11.00pm on a Thursday and reopen those he chose at 9.00am Friday under a different name thus writing off £200m of debts.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I thought you were a Spurs fan.

According to Daniel Levy, “The robust and well financed nature of our business, early prudent financial management measures, profitable player trading and the continued, unwavering loyalty of our supporters has meant that we are able to announce a record profit before tax of £33.4m for the year”

Yes I am, Im fully aware of spurs profit, but its money that has been budgeted for wages etc.

 

[Easy 10]

HMRC did challenge this rule and lost in Court; it was some years ago and prior to the Leeds/Ken Bates saga. The Football authorities used to treat HMRC debts on the same basis as other football liabilities but changed their rules; the outcome now is that HMRC votes against every football CVA proposal as a point of principle unless they're getting all their money back. I think Starry may have some detailed info on this?

My view, and as company director, on PAYE/VAT/NI/Corporation Tax etc is much the same as yours; if you're late in paying then they should be down on you like a ton of bricks. In fact this money is just being collected for HMRC and is never the Company's, so I would go as far as to say that using it for other purposes (eg paying other creditors) should be a criminal offence, not a corporate offence but a personal one - ie the Company Directors should be individually liable.

I wasn't aware it had been challenged in court previously. Should this not go beyond "challenges in court" though ? We're talking about a mandatory and lawful obligation towards public finances. I'd have thought the government would be capable of passing a law through Parliament placing any debt to HMR&C above ALL other unsecured creditors, and to hell what the unqualified old duffers running football in this country think of it.

Fully agree with your view btw.

 

[beorhthelm]

As a business, if you're not paying your PAYE / VAT / National Insurance, then that should be setting off alarm bells left, right and centre straight away that all is not well.

agreed, so they should get in there and sort it at an earlier stage. why dont they?

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

I believe Pompey are a sympton of the underlying problem. I suspect (complete opinion based on nothing more than a feeling) that the Premier League know how much of a problem this is across a number of clubs that are part of their brand.

They have all been travelling at 5oo miles per hour on the Premier League gravy train and now that one of their memebers are publically falling apart at the seams everyone is frantically hoping that this problem just 'goes away'.

Whether it is Man United, Chelsea.......or Portsmouth the Premier League are just not interested in anything that could have a serious repercussion for the disgusting lack of due dilligence and control that exists in that market.

It just makes you wonder what sort of crettins are really responsible for the way in which clubs are able to trade in the Premier League.

But if you care not one fig for the sort of people that you allow to run football clubs then its inevitable.

Chester disappear off the face of the earth - and Portsmouth are just quietly moved out of the Premier league and left to another set of authorities to deal with.

It makes you puke.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I sympathise with the small local businesses that Pompey have shafted but I also agree with the views that other clubs owed money should get their money too.

And as for a 17-point deduction for Pompey, that is a massive result for them. Southampton and Leeds have both showed with the right application a deficit of 10 points can easily be clawed back, even to the extend of contending for a play-off / promotion spot by the end of the season.

I don't see the 17 points itself preventing Pompey from finishing above the relegation places.

Morally, I think the rules should be changed so clubs are demoted to the bottom of League 2 at best.

The 10 points this season is a nothing punishment because they would have gone down anyway - West Ham, Wolves, Bolton and Wigan are all better sides. Indeed, the penalty has allowed Pompey to play with more freedom and less pressure because making relegation a certainty at a far earlier stage, and they've picked up points I think they might not have got otherwise.

 

[Easy 10]

Has this 17 points been confirmed anywhere then ? I've not seen anything.

 

[severnside gull]

not confirmed and not entirely nailed on to happen as far as I know

 

[BensGrandad]

The biggest problem and unfortunately I cannot see an answer to it other than automatic relegation to Div 2, is that somebody will buy Portsmouth and Crystal Palace for pennies, be clear of debts and then be able to pump in a couple of million, as per Southampton and be back where they started in a matter of a couple of seasons at the worst. In Portsmouth's case it is even more laughable because it is the Premier Leagues parachute payments that will buy the new owners promotion back to the premiership.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

The biggest problem and unfortunately I cannot see an answer to it other than automatic relegation to Div 2, is that somebody will buy Portsmouth and Crystal Palace for pennies, be clear of debts and then be able to pump in a couple of million, as per Southampton and be back where they started in a matter of a couple of seasons at the worst. In Portsmouth's case it is even more laughable because it is the Premier Leagues parachute payments that will buy the new owners promotion back to the premiership.

Yep - spend loads on players and give them long contracts and the whole cycle starts again.

 

[227 BHA]

If they don't get docked points at the start of next season it makes a mockery of the whole thing as this year's 9 point deduction is meaningless cos they're going down by more than 9 points anyway.

Surely they should be deducted points next season regardless or it's like them getting no punishment whatsoever?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Hull City are also heading towards administration with spiralling debts of £35M and a massive wage bill because most of the players dont have a relegation clause in their contracts and will be paid Prem wages for the next 3 to 4 years.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Hull City are also heading towards administration with spiralling debts of £35M and a massive wage bill because most of the players dont have a relegation clause in their contracts and will be paid Prem wages for the next 3 to 4 years.

With the exception of Bullard I cant see anyone really wanting any of there players

 

[Lady Whistledown]

They only get a further points deduction if they don't have a CVA in place prior to the start of next season.

No doubt they'll dust off the violins again and somehow manage to stiff HMRC, thus ensuring the CVA is in place and they can stroll off into the sunset, probably signing 15 new players on the way.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

With the exception of Bullard I cant see anyone really wanting any of there players

I'm not even convinced they'll make anything on Bullard. He has no relegation escape clause in his contract apparently, so they won't have to sell him, while his age and history of serious knee injuries make him a massive risk for a Premier League club, good though he undoubtedly is. Another Championship club probably won't be able to afford his wages, unless Hull end up having a fire sale.

You could see someone like George Boateng ending up somewhere like Bolton or Stoke maybe. But Paul McShane has found his level, and it's not the Premier League, as have the rest of their defenders

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm not even convinced they'll make anything on Bullard. He has no relegation escape clause in his contract apparently, so they won't have to sell him, while his age and history of serious knee injuries make him a massive risk for a Premier League club, good though he undoubtedly is. Another Championship club probably won't be able to afford his wages, unless Hull end up having a fire sale.

You could see someone like George Boateng ending up somewhere like Bolton or Stoke maybe. But Paul McShane has found his level, and it's not the Premier League, as have the rest of their defenders

Boateng is pretty old, maybe Myhill may end up as someones reserve?