[Politics] Poll- Just vote, No discussion-New NHS and Social Care Tax-Are You OK with it

[Guy Fawkes]

No.
And I want proof that the vast majority of the Brexit money is going to the NHS as it clearly said on the bus.
If it is, why have taxes been hiked to get the NHS/care out of the shit.

How much do you think it has cost the NHS to tackle the pandemic? https://www.hfma.org.uk/news/news-list/Article/nhs-covid-costs-are-more-than-1bn-a-month

Covid-19 costs pushed the NHS in England £5.1bn above its pre-Covid budget in the first four months of the financial year, according to Julian Kelly, NHS England and NHS Improvement chief financial officer.

if that figure is correct, what's the figure for the whole time since Feb / March 2019?

How much will it cost to tackle all the cases that had to be postponed due to routine treatments being cancelled in preparation for a huge influx in Covid cases in the early days of the pandemic when no one knew how bad it would be and how much extra strain it would put on demand for NHS staff, beds, etc.....? https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n995

Pressure is growing on the government to take urgent steps to tackle waiting time figures for the almost five million people seeking hospital treatment in England—a number that has reached a record high.

The latest referral to treatment statistics1 from NHS England published on 15 April show that 4.7 million people were waiting to begin treatment at the end of February this year—the highest number since records began in 2007. Of those 4.7 million people, 387 885 patients were waiting more than 52 weeks for routine operations and procedures, which was an increase from 224 205 in December 2020. It is also the highest number since December 2007. …

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15557

Since the start of the pandemic, the number of people waiting for NHS treatment in England has grown by a fifth. 5.3 million people were waiting for treatment in May 2021, up from 4.4 million in February 2020. There has been a particularly sharp increase in the number of people waiting for longer than a year, causing widespread concern over the scale of the NHS ‘backlog’.

Yet the number of people on the waiting list is expected to rise much further. Sajid Javid, the new Health and Social Care Secretary, has warned that it is ‘going to get a lot worse before it gets better’ and could grow to 13 million.

How many out there will have health issues that will require the NHS but have yet to contact them or do anything about it yet due to the pandemic putting them off coming forward when the service is stretched, or simply fearful of entering an environment where there is a higher risk of catching Covid and they were unprepared to take that risk until after the pandemic is over? - See above quote and more about this in the 2nd link


But hey, lets oversimplify everything and just put the blame for any of the problems this country currently faces on Brexit alone because it suits an agenda.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

No, because it’s for the NHS - which isn’t the issue - the lie is.

The Gov don’t want to admit it’s because of Covid and mishandling over the past few years.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

How much do you think it has cost the NHS to tackle the pandemic? https://www.hfma.org.uk/news/news-list/Article/nhs-covid-costs-are-more-than-1bn-a-month if that figure is correct, what's the figure for the whole time since Feb / March 2019?

How much will it cost to tackle all the cases that had to be postponed due to routine treatments being cancelled in preparation for a huge influx in Covid cases in the early days of the pandemic when no one knew how bad it would be and how much extra strain it would put on demand for NHS staff, beds, etc.....? https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n995

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15557


How many out there will have health issues that will require the NHS but have yet to contact them or do anything about it yet due to the pandemic putting them off coming forward when the service is stretched, or simply fearful of entering an environment where there is a higher risk of catching Covid and they were unprepared to take that risk until after the pandemic is over? - See above quote and more about this in the 2nd link


But hey, lets oversimplify everything and just put the blame for any of the problems this country currently faces on Brexit alone because it suits an agenda.

I know that £360M a week does not cover the money needed but that was not my point.
I have seen no evidence that the money is going to the NHS as they said it would and it has now been over 8 months.
Now that this new plan (austerity Mk2) has been announced how about directing some of that money to care services now as they need it now, care services have been in a mess for many years before covid with underpaid carers working stupid hours and no time to care as they would like to, how about using it to help out unpaid carers (8 year old kids wiping their mums backside) as they desperately need it now, not in 3 years time and the amount set aside for care is paltry.
Surely if they did that it would go down really well, care services (which is what the original plan was supposed to be all about) has more or less been shoved aside again.
Sometimes it is good to keep things simple while people are still in the dark and do not fully understand this plan and you do still need to sell your house to pay but this can be done after you die.
Lastly, if Johnson had this plan oven ready so long ago on the steps of No 10 why is it still 'a long and complicated policy' and it was still being adjusted at 11pm the day before it was being announced.
Maybe Johnson lied on the steps and there never was a plan.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I would happily play significantly more than is being proposed, if it was part of a thorough , fair policy to address the underlying issues.
But it isn't, It's just a tax rise. The money won't go where it's supposed to, and it's deliberately targetted at the wrong people.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I've voted no because I think it's the wrong tax to increase. If anything, shove it on band of income tax.

Very much this. Levy the taxes on those who can best afford to pay - millionaires like Rishi Sunak, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, George Osborne…….. and if there are Labour, Lib-dem and other party millionaires, them too.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

NHS finances are abysmally managed and controlled. It has loads of money - the real issue is what they choose to spend it on.

Your local council is a model of rectitude, efficiency and economy by comparison.

On what do you base this coruscating judgement?

 

[Sorrel]

Not fused, really. I think every political party wants to spend more and as a consequence wants to tax more. Everyone against this wants to tax more elsewhere - but when they get that chance, will they put this tax down again? I doubt it.

 

[drew]

NHS finances are abysmally managed and controlled. It has loads of money - the real issue is what they choose to spend it on.

Your local council is a model of rectitude, efficiency and economy by comparison.

Have you any real evidence of this or is this something you read in the Mail?

 

[wellquickwoody]

The electorate when asked if they would mind paying more tax if it went towards the NHS have consistently answered ‘yes’. NSCs noisy left leaning self appointed holier-than-thou types repeatedly offer to pay higher taxes to help improve social care/better fund the NHS/defend and promote minority interests etc.

Asked if OK with a small tax increase specifically aimed at health and social care issues after the crippling costs of the early part of a pandemic,and the consensus is ‘no’! You couldn’t make it up.

 

[beorhthelm]

Have you any real evidence of this or is this something you read in the Mail?

well i can say first hand they dont know centrally detail costings for hospitals and trusts. a lot of estimates, budget forecasts and allocations. also, when private sector was asked for wards to relieve pressure in 2020, their billing that was about half the cost per bed NHS allocates.

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

Extra £10 a ticket to see Jakob Molder for the rest of the season.
Average attendance at home 30,000 x 17 (matches to go) x £10 a head = £35 billion over three years by my calculations (needs checking as I ran out of toes and fingers).
Now there's Pole Tax working (ish)!

TNBA


TTF

 

[Audax]

I'm ok with it in general. The system clearly needs more money. Not entirely convinced this is the right way to raise it, but I can accept it.

However ... the system needs far more than just more money. It needs top-down and bottom-up reform, and what Boris has announced doesn't go anywhere near far enough.

 

[Brovion]

The electorate when asked if they would mind paying more tax if it went towards the NHS have consistently answered ‘yes’. NSCs noisy left leaning self appointed holier-than-thou types repeatedly offer to pay higher taxes to help improve social care/better fund the NHS/defend and promote minority interests etc.

Asked if OK with a small tax increase specifically aimed at health and social care issues after the crippling costs of the early part of a pandemic,and the consensus is ‘no’! You couldn’t make it up.

Despite the fact that the tax is poorly-targetted it has to be said that there is some truth in what you say. Certainly if a timer-traveller from the 1970s or 80s visited us (and certainly a visitor from the Thatcher era) and was told the government intended to increase taxes and use the money raised to fund the NHS and the Opposition were against it ... well I'd be amazed if they got the Government/Opposition parties right.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The electorate when asked if they would mind paying more tax if it went towards the NHS have consistently answered ‘yes’. NSCs noisy left leaning self appointed holier-than-thou types repeatedly offer to pay higher taxes to help improve social care/better fund the NHS/defend and promote minority interests etc.

Asked if OK with a small tax increase specifically aimed at health and social care issues after the crippling costs of the early part of a pandemic,and the consensus is ‘no’! You couldn’t make it up.

No surprise though, it's mainly about virtue signalling and getting a good thumbing on social media. As soon as it means making some sacrifice the excuses pile up while the very same people will continue to complain about NHS under funding, waiting lists, social care etc

This plan isn't perfect., far from it, but there are no easy tax raising options to fund clearing the NHS covid backlog/Social care and its the ONLY option on the table giving a much needed financial boost so, while acknowledging the shortcomings and knowing more will probably be needed .. I support it.


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[Uh_huh_him]

No surprise though, it's mainly about virtue signalling and getting a good thumbing on social media. As soon as it means making some sacrifice the excuses pile up while the very same people will continue to complain about NHS under funding, waiting lists, social care etc

This plan isn't perfect., far from it, but there are no easy tax raising options to fund clearing the NHS covid backlog/Social care and its the ONLY option on the table giving a much needed financial boost so, while acknowledging the shortcomings and knowing more will probably be needed .. I support it.


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Would you support a labour government policy to raise the higher rate on tax to 45%, to pay for it, if it was "the ONLY option on the table"?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Would you support a labour government policy to raise the higher rate on tax to 45%, to pay for it, if it was "the ONLY option on the table"?

I would support it while being incredibly dissapointed as it raises less than half of the NI plan.

According to the Times podcast I was listening to the other day, all Labours 'taxing the rich' policies in their last manifesto came to about 50% of the amount raised by the NI increase. Any politician claiming we can solve the funding problems without raising general taxation is lying.

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[Happy Exile]

I would support it while being incredibly dissapointed as it raises less than half of the NI plan.

According to the Times podcast I was listening to the other day, all Labours 'taxing the rich' policies in their last manifesto came to about 50% of the amount raised by the NI increase. Any politician claiming we can solve the funding problems without raising general taxation is lying.

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I'm the first to admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but I had a look at numbers for various ways of avoiding tax and it's staggering - black economy, tax avoidance, tax evasion, fraud including benefit fraud is all worth tens of billions every year in lost income. I'm sure there'll be a good reason why, but wouldn't it be better to invest in making sure people do the right thing morally and legally and make up the shortfall that way, rather than just hitting the law abiding people who are already doing the right thing even harder? Is there a reason why that isn't the primary focus of a solution? Doesn't even seem to be on the table or discussed.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm the first to admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but I had a look at numbers for various ways of avoiding tax and it's staggering - black economy, tax avoidance, tax evasion, fraud including benefit fraud is all worth tens of billions every year in lost income. I'm sure there'll be a good reason why, but wouldn't it be better to invest in making sure people do the right thing morally and legally and make up the shortfall that way, rather than just hitting the law abiding people who are already doing the right thing even harder? Is there a reason why that isn't the primary focus of a solution? Doesn't even seem to be on the table or discussed.

Completely agree, unfortunately numerous governments of all colours have found it fiendishly difficult to simplify the tax system/tackle tax avoidance. Sadly, not holding my breath anything will change soon


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