police dealing with incident on London bridge.,

[Titanic]

'Inferior race'. You are a racist and with that I am out.

If you call other races inferior, you open your self up to accusations of racism, whether you are or not.

<Pendant alert and not defending [MENTION=420]sydney[/MENTION] in any way> Muslims are no more a race than Christians.

 

[Eeyore]

I agree. The problem is clearly Islam and we do need to ask serious questions about it and all those who follow it but let's remember we live in a free society where people have the right to express views that we find abhorrent. I find much of Islam goes against Western liberal values and it seriously needs a reformation but bulldozing mosques isn't the answer.

We need to do away with the idea that we can't insult Muhammed and we can't insult Islam. It's just a belief system, people should be allowed to hate it but likewise people should also be allowed to follow it. Just make sure that the values that we hold dear are the ones that have absolute precedence over any religious beliefs and these are the ones we promote and protect.

I don't disagree with any of that. Except to say that when it comes to insulting religion I recoil at what I see as deliberate provocation. I wouldn't deliberately insult someone's religion just because I can. It's rather churlish. Challenging it, yes.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

they are killing people on the streets....corporal punishment .....hung , wrapped in pig skin , sailed out to the continental shelf......

Which is all the more reason that we look for measures that will bring results rather than will just make us feel better. There isn't always a correlation between the apparent extremity of measures suggested and how much someone cares. I was out in a busy pub in Borough Market last week and stopped and stood next to some tourists on the bridge as we all looked across the river at a stunning sunset. I felt so proud of London at that moment and I can visualise last night's seen very well and it fills me with anger and revulsion. I hate the scum that did this as much as anyone.

 

[Eeyore]

You haven't even listened to it.

I have.

 

[lawros left foot]

<Pendant alert and not defending [MENTION=420]sydney[/MENTION] in any way> Muslims are no more a race than Christians.

Yeah, I realise that, my post was in the context of the original post

 

[Buzzer]

I don't disagree with any of that. Except to say that when it comes to insulting religion I recoil at what I see as deliberate provocation. I wouldn't deliberately insult someone's religion just because I can. It's rather churlish. Challenging it, yes.

Oh same here. Just because I don't respect the religion doesn't mean I don't respect the right for someone to follow that and if that's their sincerely held belief and the way in which they follow it doesn't impinge on anyone else then it's none of my business.

It's that free speech thing again though. There is (or should be) free speech. What there isn't is free from consequences. If you take the piss out of someone just to insult them rather than challenge then don't be surprised if they get insulted and react badly. That goes for all sides. A lesson Kathy Griffin badly needs to learn also.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I agree. The problem is clearly Islam and we do need to ask serious questions about it and all those who follow it but let's remember we live in a free society where people have the right to express views that we find abhorrent. I find much of Islam goes against Western liberal values and it seriously needs a reformation but bulldozing mosques isn't the answer.

We need to do away with the idea that we can't insult Muhammed and we can't insult Islam. It's just a belief system, people should be allowed to hate it but likewise people should also be allowed to follow it. Just make sure that the values that we hold dear are the ones that have absolute precedence over any religious beliefs and these are the ones we promote and protect.

I agree with this. As a person with christian beliefs, whilst I think everyone should express ideas thoughtfully, I would not hesitate to defend someone's right to dispute and even denigrate my religion should they so wish. Christianity went through a reformation which Islam never has. I think that makes a difference apart from the peaceful nature of Jesus Christ as opposed to Mohammed. There has been a kind of Orwellian situation the past twenty years or so in which, if I may misquote, 'All religions are equal, but some religions are more equal than others.' It is precisely because we have pussy-footed around the problem of criticism of Islam/The Prophet, that we have many of these home grown nutters who have been allowed to nurture their intolerance for our way of life whilst enjoying the benefits befitting of some one who lives in the West. I am of the opinion that all belief which is likely to allow for indiscriminate treatment of our laws and any separate system of law, such as Sharia, should be outlawed. Any such people who desire to live under such laws/beliefs, should be encouraged to emigrate to a country where their beliefs will not cause discord and if that is not possible, they should be interred. Imagine if in the second world war, we had allowed Nazi sympathisers to try to build another society alongside our own culture, that would have been unthinkable.

 

[Buzzer]

I agree with this. As a person with christian beliefs, whilst I think everyone should express ideas thoughtfully, I would not hesitate to defend someone's right to dispute and even denigrate my religion should they so wish. Christianity went through a reformation which Islam never has. I think that makes a difference apart from the peaceful nature of Jesus Christ as opposed to Mohammed. There has been a kind of Orwellian situation the past twenty years or so in which, if I may misquote, 'All religions are equal, but some religions are more equal than others.' It is precisely because we have pussy-footed around the problem of criticism of Islam/The Prophet, that we have many of these home grown nutters who have been allowed to nurture their intolerance for our way of life whilst enjoying the benefits befitting of some one who lives in the West. I am of the opinion that all belief which is likely to allow for indiscriminate treatment of our laws and any separate system of law, such as Sharia, should be outlawed. Any such people who desire to live under such laws/beliefs, should be encouraged to emigrate to a country where their beliefs will not cause discord and if that is not possible, they should be interred. Imagine if in the second world war, we had allowed Nazi sympathisers to try to build another society alongside our own culture, that would have been unthinkable.

Stands up and claps. Top post, mate.

 

[symyjym]

I have.

Did you understand that he knew he was blatantly lying with intent to deceive people. It's one thing being opinionated and having different views but to be deliberately deceptive with intent to manipulate is a step towards evil and certainly insulting our intelligence.

 

[Buzzer]

No more candles, prayers or flags on government buildings please. What would be brilliant is if the authorities projected this picture onto Big Ben:

Send them a message they won't forget.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Does anyone has J/C said this today as it shows on our P/C as 16 Nov ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy

 

[studio150]

I am of the opinion that all belief which is likely to allow for indiscriminate treatment of our laws and any separate system of law, such as Sharia, should be outlawed. Any such people who desire to live under such laws/beliefs, should be encouraged to emigrate to a country where their beliefs will not cause discord and if that is not possible, they should be interred.

While that may well receive a warm round of applause in some quarters, what do you think the consequences of locking a significant number of people up purely due to their religious belief will be. Would it not actually be counter productive and actually encourage others towards these less tolerate views and the position would get worse rather than better.

While I believe there are some serious concerns with the speech Mrs May made this morning, I don't think her comments regarding having difficult conversations and having been too tolerate in the past is a green light to lock people up and throw away the key.

Would we not be in danger of becoming a parody of foreign dictatorships which we complain about by not having an open and free society.

You mention Nazi sympathisers, but it was actually more than that, given that when Italy declared war on the UK, Churchill ordered all 19,000 Italians living in the UK to be rounded up, despite the fact that many had been living in the UK for decades.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

While that may well receive a warm round of applause in some quarters, what do you think the consequences of locking a significant number of people up purely due to their religious belief will be. Would it not actually be counter productive and actually encourage others towards these less tolerate views and the position would get worse rather than better.

While I believe there are some serious concerns with the speech Mrs May made this morning, I don't think her comments regarding having difficult conversations and having been too tolerate in the past is a green light to lock people up and throw away the key.

Would we not be in danger of becoming a parody of foreign dictatorships which we complain about by not having an open and free society.

You mention Nazi sympathisers, but it was actually more than that, given that when Italy declared war on the UK, Churchill ordered all 19,000 Italians living in the UK to be rounded up, despite the fact that many had been living in the UK for decades.

What did you find of serious concern in May's speech? I'm no fan of hers but she said things we actually wanted to hear for once.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Does anyone has J/C said this today as it shows on our P/C as 16 Nov ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy

No he hasn't, he made those comments in 2015. Jezza 2.0 has had many of his real views ironed out for the election campaign.

 

[Wellesley]

<Pendant alert and not defending [MENTION=420]sydney[/MENTION] in any way> Muslims are no more a race than Christians.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

No more candles, prayers or flags on government buildings please. What would be brilliant is if the authorities projected this picture onto Big Ben:

Send them a message they won't forget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMAFme1hBH0

With this song on loop.

 

[Buzzer]

While I believe there are some serious concerns with the speech Mrs May made this morning, I don't think her comments regarding having difficult conversations and having been too tolerate in the past is a green light to lock people up and throw away the key..

It's not that at all. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want. As a wise man once said though, those rights stop at the end of my nose. Take a specific example - homosexuality. It's the view of Western liberalism that it's perfectly acceptable and we've gone so far in believing that, that it's expressly allowed in this country between consenting adults and it is illegal to discriminate against homosexuals.

Many religious people believe it's not natural and against their God. Not my view at all but it takes all sorts and I've no problem with people thinking that. There are hundreds of thousands of muslims in the UK who are against homosexuality but there's only a small percentage of those who are violently opposed to it or preach violence against it so you're wrong to suggest that all of a sudden, a whole swathe of muslims might get caught up in problems with the authorities. It's the ones doing the shit-stirring and they are either known to the police already or should be.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

While that may well receive a warm round of applause in some quarters, what do you think the consequences of locking a significant number of people up purely due to their religious belief will be. Would it not actually be counter productive and actually encourage others towards these less tolerate views and the position would get worse rather than better.

While I believe there are some serious concerns with the speech Mrs May made this morning, I don't think her comments regarding having difficult conversations and having been too tolerate in the past is a green light to lock people up and throw away the key.

Would we not be in danger of becoming a parody of foreign dictatorships which we complain about by not having an open and free society.

You mention Nazi sympathisers, but it was actually more than that, given that when Italy declared war on the UK, Churchill ordered all 19,000 Italians living in the UK to be rounded up, despite the fact that many had been living in the UK for decades.

I would not inter people incautiously. Perhaps inter was the wrong word. But it seems plain to me that there are very many people who are more than sympathetic to the aims of radical Islam and who have been very open in their support. In my opinion, that should bear a consequence as Islam in that form is diametrically opposed to the kind of tolerant, free society which we enjoy here in the UK. Where there is evidence, the law should be used to oppose such views, in the past they would have been regarded as traitors.

 

[RexCathedra]

You need to find out who was Home Secretary the last six years, and fire him, her, or them.

 

[carlzeiss]

You need to find out who was Home Secretary the last six years, and fire him, her, or them.

I am sure Diane Abbot will be a massive improvement when labour form the next government .