Police Community Support Officers.

[Lady Whistledown]

The police are another section of the public sector whose employees rely on a very militant trade union.

Factually wrong on more than one count, but, hey, carry on...

 

[Gully]

Of course we would like to have more Bobbies on the beat, in an ideal World, but they are expensive and the policing budget can only go so far.

TRY TELLING THAT TO THE STUDENDS....HAVEN'T SEEN MANY POLICE PROTESTING

Why the hell are you shouting at me...I thought that I was making a reasonable point...as a humble law abiding tax payer!!!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Out here in rural East Sussex, they are much more visible than PCs ever were ... and they are generally thought to be doing a good job, effectively.

But there's hardly any crime to speak of. Real PCs would be a complete waste of money.

 

[beorhthelm]

they seemed like glorified traffic wardens at first, mostly because they were. they could usually be seen transported around in the traffic wardens vans and cars.

but i've come to think they are quite usful, especially on high streets and stations for giving out information. i see them as sort of remote drones for the police, eye and ears to call in problems for the proper coppers. but they also seem very inconsistant, from the BTP chaps at Victoria who look like squadies to the plumpers wandering around in leafy Surry, so its difficult to cast judgment on them all as a collective group.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Agree with the above.

People want to see more police on the streets, but half the time we end up doing stuff like guarding scenes, conducting house to house enquiries where someone's been burgled, collecting or waiting around to collect CCTV from shops. In that respect, the PCSOs have been a godsend, because they can do the scene guarding, they can pick up stuff and so on, which means the rest of us can spend less time writing and more time out. And I do think the consensus is generally that they do a good job when it comes to neighbourhood policing- attending local meetings to give briefings or provide information, being a sort of community liaison etc. I realise that is supposed to be the police's job, but if you have eight officers on duty in a city the size of Brighton, a couple of shoplifters and a domestic could mean nearly all your officers are committed on a job within a few minutes, and there's nobody left to do the local stuff because you have to have units free to deal with the next 999 call.

There are certain elements about their role that winds me right up, but on balance, I think the pros outweigh the cons, just about.

 

[Working class pride]

Its obvious that there is alot of donkey work that the police have to do and so those doing the unskilled work should get paid unskilled wages. An agricultural labourer has a very skilled job but gets paid sod all and yet a bobby on the beat a small fortune. The police need to get more intelligent people in the force and change the canteen culture. to do that you pay higher wages and give more responsibility to the few and less to those doing the donkey work. The police federation want to block this as they are an obstructive regressive trade union. On the budget side of things, the first thing has to be to stop paying out vast pensions and stop the police from retiring then getting another job at another force, thus coining in an over generous pension plus a full time salary. Also get rid of regional forces and the middle management that as a result are employed to manage umpteen different forces. As a taxpayer I want cheap bobbies/PSOs, well paid intelligent police further up the chain, and cheaper administration. Reform the police, fire service and the tube (actually lets have a DLR type tube with no drivers at all)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In the words of one of my sons friends in the Met ' they are a complete waste of time and money and have virtually no power whatsoever'

Has he heard what people say about the Met?

 

[The French Mistress]

Its obvious that there is alot of donkey work that the police have to do and so those doing the unskilled work should get paid unskilled wages. An agricultural labourer has a very skilled job but gets paid sod all and yet a bobby on the beat a small fortune. The police need to get more intelligent people in the force and change the canteen culture. to do that you pay higher wages and give more responsibility to the few and less to those doing the donkey work. The police federation want to block this as they are an obstructive regressive trade union. On the budget side of things, the first thing has to be to stop paying out vast pensions and stop the police from retiring then getting another job at another force, thus coining in an over generous pension plus a full time salary. Also get rid of regional forces and the middle management that as a result are employed to manage umpteen different forces. As a taxpayer I want cheap bobbies/PSOs, well paid intelligent police further up the chain, and cheaper administration. Reform the police, fire service and the tube (actually lets have a DLR type tube with no drivers at all)

Think the record's stuck, you obviously need a trip to surgery, to get that big chip removed from your shoulder! The thread refers to PCSO's, not the drivel you're spouting out.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What are the minimum requirements to join the police?

 

[The French Mistress]

Has he heard what people say about the Met?

Don't go there !

 

[BensGrandad]

He trained in Essex and then transferred to the Met to live in the same house work, 5 miles further from his home than he did in Essex. Think he was at Romford and is now at Dagenham but earns far more money. Apparently Sussex have the heighest rate of people doing that. Between times of leaving Essex and joing the Mey he went to New Zealand and the family were going to follow after 6 months but he didnt like the fact of being armed at all times said it was very scarry and soon came back home and joined the Met.

 

[cuthbert]

In my area the PCSOs are very well respected and have done a lot of good work. When an elderly drinking companion had not been seen for a few days, we mentioned it to a passing PCSO who with proper authority ended up climbing in through one of his windows and unfortunately found our mate dead in bed. The young woman concerned performed what turned out to be an unpleasant job with sympathy and skill. Just to correct what was said elsewhere, she is not a fat bird and was selelected from an eventual group of two PCS and two PCSOs because she was the only one small and agile enough to get through the window.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In my area the PCSOs are very well respected and have done a lot of good work. When an elderly drinking companion had not been seen for a few days, we mentioned it to a passing PCSO who with proper authority ended up climbing in through one of his windows and unfortunately found our mate dead in bed. The young woman concerned performed what turned out to be an unpleasant job with sympathy and skill. Just to correct what was said elsewhere, she is not a fat bird and was selelected from an eventual group of two PCS and two PCSOs because she was the only one small and agile enough to get through the window.

Was it a patio window she squeezed through?

 

[The Fifth Column]

Its obvious that there is alot of donkey work that the police have to do and so those doing the unskilled work should get paid unskilled wages. An agricultural labourer has a very skilled job but gets paid sod all and yet a bobby on the beat a small fortune. The police need to get more intelligent people in the force and change the canteen culture. to do that you pay higher wages and give more responsibility to the few and less to those doing the donkey work. The police federation want to block this as they are an obstructive regressive trade union. On the budget side of things, the first thing has to be to stop paying out vast pensions and stop the police from retiring then getting another job at another force, thus coining in an over generous pension plus a full time salary. Also get rid of regional forces and the middle management that as a result are employed to manage umpteen different forces. As a taxpayer I want cheap bobbies/PSOs, well paid intelligent police further up the chain, and cheaper administration. Reform the police, fire service and the tube (actually lets have a DLR type tube with no drivers at all)

Your absurd reasoning and so called facts are so far from the truth its painful to read.

The police federation are not a trade union - fact.

How do you come to the conclusion that an agricultural worker has a skilled job! I'm sure it must be really skilled picking spuds and operating farm machinery. You also seem to think getting jobs are all about what academic qualifications you have, what utter crap you spout. Of all the dozens of coppers I know, the most inept and clueless are those who went to university.

You say - "The police federation want to block this as they are an obstructive regressive trade union". A completely empty sentence with no basis in fact and nothing to back this claim up.

Apparently all our coppers retire and join 'other' forces. Again a baseless made up fact and fabrication with nothing to back it up. Of all the dozens of retired coppers I know only 2 have ever done such a thing and went to British transport police since this is one of only two or three you can go to and claim all your pension rights and a new salary (the other is the police that patrol nuclear establishments and the London Parks police or something equally obscure), it would not be financially sound for them to go to another county force (if they were lucky enough to find one willing to employ a 25-30 year veteran - highly unlikely) as their pensions and lump sum payments would remain frozen until they stopped working. Your posts are crap and baseless drivel, you claim you want more PCSOs but in my experience a vast majority of PCSOs are people who failed to become police officers and/or are not particularly blessed with intelligence. Get your facts right and come back when you can post something remotely sensible.

 

[cuthbert]

Was it a patio window she squeezed through?

No even I might have managed to get through one of them. I think it probably depends on the individual PCSOs, we are lucky the ones that patrol round us are approachable, friendly and intelligent. As has been mentioned above they provide a valuable link between the police and the community which was not there before, the amount of graffiti, minor vandalism and petty shoplifting have all reduced significantly, which may not seem important to you but it is to those who live and work here.

 

[Working class pride]

I removed my reply

 

[The Fifth Column]

Instead of getting angry you should take a step back. The police fedreation act as a trade union. They lobby and they are obstructive to change. Insulting agricultural labourers shows arrogance. Actually their job involves building, animal welfare, long hours - 24/7, heavy machinery and the list goes on. I would agree on graduates these days, a degree just about shows the candidate can read and write - and as the police pay well so someone who doesnt make it in the private sector will likely head to the police. However, what I am pointing out is that there are skilled and unskilled jobs in all industry, and the market should determine salary. There is a danger factor of course but so is there in fishing (the most dangerous occupation with being a merchant seaman). Private sector jobs do not have a lavish state funded pension scheme. The scam (at our expense) of police resigning, drawing retirement and then working for a new force is a scandal - and you know two of them! The police need a change. The canteen culture must go and they should recruit intelligent people at the top otherwise the canteen culture highlighted by The Lawrence fiasco will continue. The fact that hardly anyone (if anyone?) was not sacked for that is frankly, as a tax payer, not good enough. From top to bottom there should have been sackings. There will be many good policemen but frankly the police as an institution is old fashioned and way behind the curve. Like everything life moves on and so should the police, fire service and the tube. However the employees of these services (paid for by us) seem to think we go to work to give them a generous salary and pension, but frankly we dont and the police work for us not the other way around. As an aside, it was an ex chief of the MET that said that a successful police force recruits more honest officers than dishonest one's, and the MET was successful - just. Thet is not much of an endorsement from someone that ran the MET. So if you wont listen to us your customers then maybe listen to your boss.

I'm not angry at all, a very weak attempt from you at trying to get a rise, try harder. The Police federation do not act as a trade union and most police officers have little real contact with or dealings with them on a daily basis, so they lobby - big deal, are we to expect then that police officers go unrepresented with no-one to protect their interests unlike almost every other worker in the country, that's fair isn't it? Don't try and get on your high horse and have a pop because I made comment on agricultural workers, since you are insulting police officers that puts us on a level par.

I also note you are still intent on perpetuating this myth: "The scam (at our expense) of police resigning, drawing retirement and then working for a new force is a scandal - and you know two of them!"

For starters, police pensions are not entirely at the taxpayers expense, they pay 11% of their pay in contributions (by far the highest rate of all public sector workers). Secondly please publish your facts where there is evidence police are resigning and doing this. Yes I know 2 officers (in over 10 years!) who retired (not resigned) and then went to work for a couple of years in the Transport police after getting their pensions. Hardly a common occurance and not a scam but just as legitimate as any other person retiring from any job, getting their pension and getting a new job somewhere else. And you obviously ignored the bit in my reply where it says that a police officer cannot resign or retire, draw all their pension rights and get re-employed in another force as a police officer (apart from BTP and 2 other extremely minor specialist constabularies) because if they did so they would not be able to draw their pensions rights until they properly retire. And I am pretty certain that British transport police is not made up of retirees of every other police force in the land so your claim is completely false and you cannot give any facts to support it. I doubt if you even understand what canteen culture even is but you obviously picked up on that nice little quote from the Lawrence report (how long ago was that? 11 years). A lot has changed in the last 11 years and so called canteen culture is not even an issue on any chief police officers agenda these days. Anyhow why let any facts get in the way of your skewed and blinkered opinions, carry on with your revolution.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Shame I copied it in my post then.

 

[Norman Potting]

Agree with the above.

People want to see more police on the streets, but half the time we end up doing stuff like guarding scenes, conducting house to house enquiries where someone's been burgled, collecting or waiting around to collect CCTV from shops. In that respect, the PCSOs have been a godsend, because they can do the scene guarding, they can pick up stuff and so on, which means the rest of us can spend less time writing and more time out. And I do think the consensus is generally that they do a good job when it comes to neighbourhood policing- attending local meetings to give briefings or provide information, being a sort of community liaison etc. I realise that is supposed to be the police's job, but if you have eight officers on duty in a city the size of Brighton, a couple of shoplifters and a domestic could mean nearly all your officers are committed on a job within a few minutes, and there's nobody left to do the local stuff because you have to have units free to deal with the next 999 call.

There are certain elements about their role that winds me right up, but on balance, I think the pros outweigh the cons, just about.

That would seem to sum up what my view on their role is, see also Lord B's thoughtful post. The PCSO's that I have come into contact with through work all seem to be keen to do a good job within the parameters of what they are allowed to do and in a rural area with not much crime to speak of I am sure that they offer a reassuring presence to some. It is very rare that when I am in the town that I don't spot one or more PCSO's representing a visible uniformed presence and am pleased that Sussex seem to be trying preserve them.

Perhaps if the role was structured as a sort of "apprentice bobby" with a clear career path to full PC then it would attract more quality candidates and permit "on the job" training but I don't profess to be an expert on such matters.

 

[BensGrandad]

They do have different style numbers to police officers

They still have the big PCSO on their shoulders which make people think that they are not proper coppers only wannabees who are not good enough.

I know of a DS who retired and then got a new job and was put in charge of PCSOs locally. So it is wrong for people to say that you cant take a pension from the police force and then be re -employed by them. She has now retired completely.