PMQ - Boris v Starmer - Spider And The Fly

[Gwylan]

Genuine question.

How strong do you think the influence and thoughts of Momentum will be when the manifesto pops up?

Why do people keep going on about Momentum? Its numbers were small. At its peak, it was an organisation that represented about 10% of Labour members - I believe that it's currently about 8%.

There is a sister organisation in parliament, the Socialist Campaign Group, that has strong links with Momentum but this is made up of 35 (out of 202) Labour MPs - about 17%. With those numbers, I can't see there being too much influence.

 

[maltaseagull]

I would cut Boris a bit of slack right now.., the poor so and so almost died a few weeks back and having the virus that bad can leave you weakened , they say... Also, the figures on Covid have not gone well. Who should we blame? Politicians know squat about medicine, they follow the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and the faceless SAGE committee.
It is them who have let us down, if we were to play a blame game. Although finger pointing is a pretty useless thing to do.

It's a fair point but ultimately, the buck stops etc.

What sickens me is the number of politicians constantly criticising lack of preparation, wrong decisions but one wonders where they were two and even four months ago?

Are they ever on record for saying what should have been done?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Why do people keep going on about Momentum?

#### me, I only asked.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's a fair point but ultimately, the buck stops etc.

What sickens me is the number of politicians constantly criticising lack of preparation, wrong decisions but one wonders where they were two and even four months ago?

Are they ever on record for saying what should have been done?

23rd January in Parliament
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-70F8-4CC6-AABD-2CCF4E271C34/WuhanCoronavirus

 

[dazzer6666]

I would cut Boris a bit of slack right now.., the poor so and so almost died a few weeks back and having the virus that bad can leave you weakened , they say... Also, the figures on Covid have not gone well. Who should we blame? Politicians know squat about medicine, they follow the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and the faceless SAGE committee.
It is them who have let us down, if we were to play a blame game. Although finger pointing is a pretty useless thing to do.

I think he is being cut quite a bit of slack (if you ignore most of the press squealing which has become white noise now it's so repetitive). He doesn't have Starmer properly going after him yet and his own party aren't going to do so either. This will happen after we emerge from the pandemic and the inquests/recriminations start though. I've personally got a fair bit of sympathy with him for the reasons you state - not sure who would have handled things any better, and it's pointless speculating really - can only deal with the actuality. Mistakes have clearly been made but anyone would have made them, or others which might or might not have been worse. I do think, though, he's looking increasingly fragile - again, this situation would drain anyone, let alone someone who was in ITU a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Chicken Run]

I live in the safest of safe Tory seats so it really does not matter how I vote but there was no one I could stomach putting an x next to either of the candidates who had those clowns in charge.

Starmer, though, looks like a politician I could vote for.

Have you just moved into his constituency?


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[Fitzcarraldo]

Fair enough, but the likes of Long Bailey and Thornberry still loiter.

What's your problem with Emily Thornberry?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think he is being cut quite a bit of slack (if you ignore most of the press squealing which has become white noise now it's so repetitive). He doesn't have Starmer properly going after him yet and his own party aren't going to do so either. This will happen after we emerge from the pandemic and the inquests/recriminations start though. I've personally got a fair bit of sympathy with him for the reasons you state - not sure who would have handled things any better, and it's pointless speculating really - can only deal with the actuality. Mistakes have clearly been made but anyone would have made them, or others which might or might not have been worse. I do think, though, he's looking increasingly fragile - again, this situation would drain anyone, let alone someone who was in ITU a couple of weeks ago.

Starmer's not even moved out of first gear yet. This is a guy that was DPP after all. On a human level, I do feel for Boris. He's just come back into a hugely pressurised job off the back of a hugely debilitating illness. But on a professional level, he's clearly been promoted to the level of his incompetence. Would not be in the least surprised if he stepped down sometime soon with the reason given as 'health grounds'. Which would at least be a valid part of the reason

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's a fair point but ultimately, the buck stops etc.

What sickens me is the number of politicians constantly criticising lack of preparation, wrong decisions but one wonders where they were two and even four months ago?

Are they ever on record for saying what should have been done?

Maybe not but that is whataboutery isn't it?

Ultimately the Government are there to lead the country through good times and bad.
That is the job. Every government are measured on their performance It doesn't matter a jot what the opposition would have done.

 

[Is it PotG?]

What's your problem with Emily Thornberry?

Aside from that smug grin, I think damage was caused to her spotless image over the 'stupid constituents' ALLEGATION.

 

[WATFORD zero]

What are his policies?

How very quaint and 20th century.

I don't know where you've been the last few years, but a good three word slogan is all that is required in 21st Century.

Policies would simply confuse the segment of the electorate that needs targeting.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Really excellent analogy, from the Telegraph of all places;

It’s always the toughest stage of The Apprentice: the interviews round. A slick-haired young telemarketer in a shiny suit will swagger in, and start bragging about the foolproof business idea he’s had – only for the interviewer to take him apart like a Duplo train set.

In no time, the candidate has dissolved into a puddle of babbling neurosis, unable to give a convincing answer to any question, up to and including the spelling of his own name.

This is what it’s like, these days, watching Sir Keir Starmer grill Boris Johnson at PMQs. Labour’s new leader is calm, polite, and utterly merciless.

 

[stewart12]

I think anyone cutting Johnson some slack must have woefully low standards when it comes to what to expect from our leaders

He has a massive majority in parliament, given to him by the British public so can pretty much do what he wants. The result? 2nd largest amounts of deaths on earth

 

[Is it PotG?]

How very quaint and 20th century.

I don't know where you've been the last few years, but a good three word slogan is all that is required in 21st Century.

Policies would simply confuse the segment of the electorate that needs targeting.

Time will tell then, if that is indeed the case, whether Starmer & Co have picked up on this.

If that IS the case, I wonder what 3 word wonder might be presented.

"Clinical, calm and collected"?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Time will tell then, if that is indeed the case, whether Starmer & Co have picked up on this.

If that IS the case, I wonder what 3 word wonder might be presented.

"Clinical, calm and collected"?

"Get Coronavirus Done"?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

How very quaint and 20th century.

I don't know where you've been the last few years, but a good three word slogan is all that is required in 21st Century.

Policies would simply confuse the segment of the electorate that needs targeting.

If only elections were decided on policies and not on misinformation and tribal allegiance.

I remember in 2010 there was an online questionnaire for people to answer which policies they most agreed with.

My office of 12 predominantly working/middle class Tory voters did it. All but one came out as supporting broadly labour/liberal policies.

Needless to say none of them changed their voting intention.

Tell a lie it was 2015

 

[Chicken Run]

Really excellent analogy, from the Telegraph of all places;

It’s always the toughest stage of The Apprentice: the interviews round. A slick-haired young telemarketer in a shiny suit will swagger in, and start bragging about the foolproof business idea he’s had – only for the interviewer to take him apart like a Duplo train set.

In no time, the candidate has dissolved into a puddle of babbling neurosis, unable to give a convincing answer to any question, up to and including the spelling of his own name.

This is what it’s like, these days, watching Sir Keir Starmer grill Boris Johnson at PMQs. Labour’s new leader is calm, polite, and utterly merciless.

How many times exactly has Starmer grilled the PM at PMQ’s


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[blue-shifted]

It's a fair point but ultimately, the buck stops etc.

What sickens me is the number of politicians constantly criticising lack of preparation, wrong decisions but one wonders where they were two and even four months ago?

Are they ever on record for saying what should have been done?

I think lack of preparation is a fair point. Being in government, is, or should be, dull. You have to attend meetings about things you're not interested in, that don't seem relevant at the moment. Build bridges with those you don't especially like, or agree with and drop your ideological beliefs when the greater good demands it. In other words, do the hard yards. Boris has done none of these things and his limitations are being brutally exposed and many people are dying because of it.

 

[Chicken Run]

If only elections were decided on policies and not on misinformation and tribal allegiance.

I remember in 2010 there was an online questionnaire for people to answer which policies they most agreed with.

My office of 12 predominantly working/middle class Tory voters did it. All but one came out as supporting broadly labour/liberal policies.

Needless to say none of them changed their voting intention.

Totally agree, I always come out left of centre on the Political Compass but would never vote for Labour or any other left of centre party.


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[Fitzcarraldo]

Aside from that smug grin, I think damage was caused to her spotless image over the 'stupid constituents' ALLEGATION.

I think an ex-human rights barrister who experienced using free school meals and food banks when growing up is a strength to the Labour Party. Seems quite shallow to dismiss her because you think she has a 'smug grin' and believe an unproven allegation, but, each to their own.